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freemanjud
Boston, US
Posts: 350

Reading:


So why ARE we so intrigued by Hitler? For good or for bad, what is it that we want to know about him? Is it akin to our fascination with Beyoncé or Kim Kardashian or Donald Trump? Is it our fascination with the image of pure evil? Is it that we see him as the ultimate “bogeyman,” the Darth Vader/ Voldemort of the twentieth century? Is he responsible for every evil thing that happened in World War II? When one reads Mein Kampf, you are left to wonder: how could someone who writes such convoluted sentences and phrases be so fascinating for so many people?


Janet Flanner was intrigued early on. An American expatriate for much of her life, Flanner traveled to Germany to interview Hitler for a three-part profile in The New Yorker. Ignatius Phayre (a pseudonym) visited Hitler’s lair in the Bavarian Alps and profiled it in the Architectural Digest of the day, the magazine Homes and Gardens.


In fact, are these articles the 1930s equivalents of Oprah/Ellen/The View/”Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous” celebrity-infused talk/gossip shows?


Ian Kershaw is without question the preeminent biographer of Adolf Hitler; it’s his 2-volume book you go to if you want to find out whether this rumor or that one is true or bogus with respect to the Führer. His two books (on reserve in the library in connection with the “targeted populations project” delves into every nook and cranny of Hitler’s life.


By reading through these articles and listening to the interview with Ian Kershaw, what ares the big “takeaways” for you re Hitler? Do you understand him any better? Do you think trying to understanding him is a worthwhile pursuit? At the end of the day, in your view, what’s the most important thing(s) to know about Adolf Hitler? And why?


As usual, be sure to respond fully to this post, supporting your observations with specifics from the readings and from class. And be sure to interact with your fellow students—that is, read some of their posts and be sure to respond to what they have to say within your own (and for you early posters, that means returning to this thread!).
RockPigeon
Boston, Massachusetts , US
Posts: 21

Why are we so intrigued by Hitler?

Even before the beginning of World War II, Hitler was a uniquely fascinating political figure. As suggested by the articles by Janet Flanner and “Ignatius Phayre,” Hitler differed from other world leaders of the time not only in the process of his rise to power, but also in the way he presented himself to the general public. As described by Ian Kershaw, perhaps the foremost historical expert on Hitler’s rise and fall, Hitler was remarkably successful in creating a cult of personality, the influence of which is partially responsible for his political success during his time, and for the lasting interest that he has inspired in historians and researchers in the decades since.


Part of this image revolved around the ways in which he tried to depict himself as both similar to, and removed from, “ordinary” citizens. The Flannery article suggests that not all of that was intentional image-making: his “slight formal education” and family history consisting of “intermarrying pious Roman Catholic peasants” come in for some ridicule by Flanner. She also remarks on several additional oddities of his personal life, including his vegetarianism and supposed sobriety. The New Yorker article collection spends more than a few paragraphs exclusively focusing on his sexual life, or lack thereof, and spends scarcely a few paragraphs on the causes of his rise to power. This sort of media treatment, along with the Home & Gardens feature, is consistent with the way many celebrities, rather than serious political figures, are treated today. Hitler also seems to have tried to present himself as sort of an idealized version of a regular citizen, much in the way that many modern celebrities do today. This aspect of his persona, Ian Kershaw theorized, is also partially responsible for the historical interest in him, for unlike Stalin — a dictator who came from and was in effect trained by a line of dictators — Hitler was a seemingly ordinary person who attained great power, and then chose to use it to commit unfathomable atrocities.


Another part of the reason Hitler rose to power so quickly was his ability to effectively speak on the fear and anger, whether based in fact or fiction, that prevailed in Germany and Austria in the years after World War I. Anti-Semitism was a common theme, exacerbated by many public figures who tried to use the Jewish people of Germany as a scapegoat for their defeat in the war. Hitler’s repetition of these ideas may have also been inspired by his time in Vienna, one of the most anti-Semitic cities in Europe during the early twentieth century, where he spent time attempting to become an artist prior to his enlistment in World War 1. At the end of the war, he was also selected by the German government to be trained as a “demagogue” as part of an effort to limit the influence of socialism and communism on recent veterans. This messaging quickly morphed into a form of nationalism, which later played a central role in the propaganda created by the Nazis to promote their world view.


The Nazi Party grew out of the Deutsche Arbeiter Partei in Munich, later renamed the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei, and was initially one of many “little groups of men, each with a new brand of patriotism, which … [claimed] to be the country’s single salvation.” This proliferation of ethno-nationalism across Germany, due to resentment and economic hardships that resulted from the loss of World War I, was another significant factor in Hitler’s popularity and rapid rise to power. It is perhaps this “popularity” in the early stages of his career that it is most important to examine. How exactly did a dogmatic Austrian, with strange personal habits, limited formal education, and few pre-existing political connections, gain control of all of Germany? What shifts in German, and Austrian, society allowed this to happen? The chaotic conditions of post-war Germany, and the dismal economic state of the Weimar Republic, surely contributed to the establishment of Hitler’s dictatorship more than any personal qualities or abilities that he may have had.

FlyingCelestialDragon
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Posts: 14

The big takeaway from what I read and listened about Hitler is that people are really curious about him. Down to his eating habits, daily pursues, love life and more. From that, I can see that he was also a human being with interests and not just a tyrant that terrorized Germany. From the articles, “Profiles: Führer” and “Hitler’s Mountain Home,” they both talked about the daily life of Hitler, down to the smallest details, such as what he dislikes and likes to eat. People are obsessed about knowing everything about Hitler, because he’s always seen as a bad person that did many horrible things. Sometimes fear drives curiosity. But from the reading, I still don’t understand his thinking of doing such horrible things, therefore it doesn’t mean I understand him any better. I don’t think trying to understand him is a worthwhile pursuit because even if we get to the point where we find out his true thoughts and why he actually started all of this, nothing would be changed. We would just have more information that he was not a good person. At the end of the day, the most important thing to know about Adolf Hitler is that he was the leader of the Nazis and led WWII causing destruction to the Jews.

autumnpeaches
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Posts: 19

Why are we so intrigued by Hitler?

My big takeaway after reading these articles and listening to the video was that Hitler was an extremely charismatic and smart man. He was courteous and polite, he entertained children, treated his servants as friends, and yet he is one of the most, if not arguably the most, brutal historical figures in the 20th century. However, he wasn’t always this great figure in the mind of the German people. In fact, before WW1 ended, no one even took what he was saying seriously. But once he rose in power, his ego rose along with it. If enough people manage to convince him he was great and invincible, he’ll start believing he’s great and invincible, and in turn he’ll become great and invincible. Encouragement wasn’t enough though, he also had to have the skills to back him up, and he did. It’s stated that you could NEVER win an argument against him 1 on 1 because he was just that sharp and cunning. He also wrote all of his speeches, directed the military, and even designed his own home?? I never even knew this about him.


In my opinion, the more I read about Hitler, the more I can see the parallelism between him and Oskar Schlindler. Schindler couldn’t be considered “good” by normal standards. He smoked (a lot), he drank (a lot), cheated on his wife (a lot), and he was part of the Nazi Party, let’s not forget that. But he saved over 1000 Jews, so in retrospect, he is a good person. Now let’s take Hitler as an example, he didn’t smoke nor drink nor did he cheat on his wife. He was even a vegetarian, now this fact surprised me. Was he a good person? No. He’s “good”, but he wasn’t a “good person”, and vice versa for Schlindler. This is why it’s so important not to see things in black and white lenses, but actually to try to see the reasoning behind everything, which is why I think so many people are obsessed with “figuring out” Hitler.


Even after reading all this, I can say with my chest that I still can’t understand Hitler, and I probably never will, but I think trying to understand him is a worthwhile pursuit. He was obviously a capable man. I don't think anyone can deny that, but his actions towards Jewish people were so horrendous that you can’t help wondering what was going through his head. The obsession behind Hitler is deeply rooted in our doubt and confusion. What was his thought process behind the Holocaust? Why did he do what he did? What was he like behind his Fuhrer persona? With someone like Stalin, who also killed a lot of people, there was an explanation for his actions: power. He wanted power, so he spread propaganda and killed those who opposed him. Hitler was the same, he hated Jewish people, so he initiated a genocide. But why? Stalin killed those who opposed him, but the Jews never did anything to Hitler. Why was he so convinced that they were the problem, and why did his thoughts ferment to that extent? The more one questions Hitler, the more one becomes interested in him. Before doing this discussion post, I had no interest in figuring out Hitler whatsoever. The more I read about him, though, the more I start to wonder, and the more I want to research. I can definitely understand why other writers fell down this rabbit hole.
Martha $tewart
Boston, MA, US
Posts: 19

Why are we so intrigued by Hitler?

The big takeaway for me has been that Hitler was a normal person at one point, and that anybody could end up being as awful as him so it's impossible to find exactly what created the monster he became. According to the readings, Hitler was a designer, artist, architect, gardener, and music lover. If you read the articles without context of what he did, it would seem as if you were reading about some kind, docile leader in Germany who enjoyed a vegetarian diet and parties in his summer home. The materials made me understand him less, if anything. Hitler ordered the murder of disabled people, yet he himself was labeled as “partially invalid". I think that some of his hateful ideologies could have been adopted by him due to his appearance and family history. Maybe he absorbed some of the ideas that people used to bully him and convinced himself that they were true.


But, in my opinion, it doesn’t really matter what caused Hitler to turn out the way he did. I could understand the argument that knowing his motives could help prevent someone like him from rising to power again, but I really don’t think it would. Hitler reminds me of true crime stories of killers who keep people in their basement and no one ever suspects a thing because the person goes on living as if everything were ok. All that matters is that he did what he did and that so many people and families have to deal with the aftermath. People are so obsessed with Hitler because he doesn’t make any sense. One article even stated that he got sick when he saw blood. Like Ian Kershaw said on the Charlie Rose show, Hitler shows people what humans are capable of, and that scares them. I also think that, as Americans and as people who weren’t alive during the Holocaust, we are desensitized to its true weight. Sometimes the things we read about in history can seem like stories from different worlds that don’t impact us, it is important to remember that each number was a soul that could have had 16 pages of articles written about their personality just like Hitler did.


I think that the most important thing to know about Hitler is that he was the man at the forefront of the Holocaust, and that he caused the deaths of millions of people. Though it is intriguing, I think focusing on what Hitler ate for breakfast and what his summer villa looked like takes away from the importance of recognizing the Jewish (and other) lives that he ended, and what potential they might have had.

bigbear
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Posts: 21

Why are we so intrigued by Hitler?

Countless people are intrigued by Hitler and want to know more about him. They want to know more about him due to the actions he took against the Jews, and the number of deaths he caused. A normal person would never want to do that to any group of people no matter how bad they are so people are intrigued by Hitler's insanity. They want to know if things could have changed if he was accepted into art school, or if the people around him had made different choices that affected his way of life. If he hadn't dodged the draft in Austria for WWI would he be in the same places? If he was caught by the Austrian government would he still become the chancellor of Germany? People are intrigued by Hitler not because they support his ideals but because they want to know what caused his hatred towards Jews, and what choices and actions occurred around him for that mindset to change. I don't think of Hitler as a celebrity like Beyonce or Harry Styles instead I think of him like he was a serial killer, a person who had no real reason to commit the atrocities he committed but we still want some insight into his upbringing in order to figure out these actions. However, even if I think of Hitler I don't think of him as a Darth Vader or a Voldermort of the twentieth century but as a human being. Definitely not a normal human because every few humans could still think of themselves as good people after having killed millions, but I think of him as a regular person that can die just as easily as us. This may be different for some but if I saw Hitler on the street I would definitely be shocked I don't think I would be scared of him, and I would just think of him as an everyday pedestrian walking through the city. I don't see Hitler as someone out of my reach, and I wouldn't be able to stop him, ad I think that is what is intriguing about him. He was a normal human being who changed due to the circumstances around him, or many other things we don't know, but there had to be some big thing that happened in his life that changed his views towards other cultures. It could be that Hitler had gone insane due to the war and was never able to mentally recover post-war but we don't know, it could be many different things, and that is what makes Hitler intriguing.

After reading through the articles I still have no idea for the cause of Hitler's actions and in fact am more confused than before I read them. Before I thought that Hitler was insane and had no control over himself and that could still be true. I thought it could have been due to his uprbring but when I read the article Ignatius Phayre I saw Hitler's nice home, and how he was able to grow up in a very nice town with a terrace so that took that option out for me and it eliminated that option. At home when he was grown up to the dictator we know, he seemed to act like a normal human, surrounded by those around him who are his lifeling friends, and was even vegetarian which definitely suprised me. You would think that a vegetarian who hates the killing of animals and doesn't like to eat meat wouldn't want to kill humans. However my main thought that Hitler got affected kinda got thrown out the window because he was very nice to his gardeners based on what we know, however he could have been different than what was seen ina rticles so that could be a lie in order to make Hitler look better. All in all after reading these articles and viewing the video it made me even more intrigued to know the motive for Hitler's actions, and I believe that is why many other people are interested as well.

Martha $tewart
Boston, MA, US
Posts: 19

Originally posted by autumnpeaches on March 09, 2023 20:50

My big takeaway after reading these articles and listening to the video was that Hitler was an extremely charismatic and smart man. He was courteous and polite, he entertained children, treated his servants as friends, and yet he is one of the most, if not arguably the most, brutal historical figures in the 20th century. However, he wasn’t always this great figure in the mind of the German people. In fact, before WW1 ended, no one even took what he was saying seriously. But once he rose in power, his ego rose along with it. If enough people manage to convince him he was great and invincible, he’ll start believing he’s great and invincible, and in turn he’ll become great and invincible. Encouragement wasn’t enough though, he also had to have the skills to back him up, and he did. It’s stated that you could NEVER win an argument against him 1 on 1 because he was just that sharp and cunning. He also wrote all of his speeches, directed the military, and even designed his own home?? I never even knew this about him.


In my opinion, the more I read about Hitler, the more I can see the parallelism between him and Oskar Schlindler. Schindler couldn’t be considered “good” by normal standards. He smoked (a lot), he drank (a lot), cheated on his wife (a lot), and he was part of the Nazi Party, let’s not forget that. But he saved over 1000 Jews, so in retrospect, he is a good person. Now let’s take Hitler as an example, he didn’t smoke nor drink nor did he cheat on his wife. He was even a vegetarian, now this fact surprised me. Was he a good person? No. He’s “good”, but he wasn’t a “good person”, and vice versa for Schlindler. This is why it’s so important not to see things in black and white lenses, but actually to try to see the reasoning behind everything, which is why I think so many people are obsessed with “figuring out” Hitler.

Even after reading all this, I can say with my chest that I still can’t understand Hitler, and I probably never will, but I think trying to understand him is a worthwhile pursuit. He was obviously a capable man. I don't think anyone can deny that, but his actions towards Jewish people were so horrendous that you can’t help wondering what was going through his head. The obsession behind Hitler is deeply rooted in our doubt and confusion. What was his thought process behind the Holocaust? Why did he do what he did? What was he like behind his Fuhrer persona? With someone like Stalin, who also killed a lot of people, there was an explanation for his actions: power. He wanted power, so he spread propaganda and killed those who opposed him. Hitler was the same, he hated Jewish people, so he initiated a genocide. But why? Stalin killed those who opposed him, but the Jews never did anything to Hitler. Why was he so convinced that they were the problem, and why did his thoughts ferment to that extent? The more one questions Hitler, the more one becomes interested in him. Before doing this discussion post, I had no interest in figuring out Hitler whatsoever. The more I read about him, though, the more I start to wonder, and the more I want to research. I can definitely understand why other writers fell down this rabbit hole.

I agree with your comment on his ego in the first paragraph. One of the articles said that he didn't really have anything going for him except his public speaking skills, and in the interview Ian Kershaw said that his biggest advantage was the ability to recognize his enemies weaknesses. If someone else had started the same movement and he was just a citizen, he might have even been targeted during an event like the Holocaust. If he wasn't given the initial support and had such devoted followers, his party would not have succeeded.

bigbear
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Posts: 21

Why are we so intrigued by Adolf?

Originally posted by Martha $tewart on March 09, 2023 21:05

The big takeaway for me has been that Hitler was a normal person at one point, and that anybody could end up being as awful as him so it's impossible to find exactly what created the monster he became. According to the readings, Hitler was a designer, artist, architect, gardener, and music lover. If you read the articles without context of what he did, it would seem as if you were reading about some kind, docile leader in Germany who enjoyed a vegetarian diet and parties in his summer home. The materials made me understand him less, if anything. Hitler ordered the murder of disabled people, yet he himself was labeled as “partially invalid". I think that some of his hateful ideologies could have been adopted by him due to his appearance and family history. Maybe he absorbed some of the ideas that people used to bully him and convinced himself that they were true.


But, in my opinion, it doesn’t really matter what caused Hitler to turn out the way he did. I could understand the argument that knowing his motives could help prevent someone like him from rising to power again, but I really don’t think it would. Hitler reminds me of true crime stories of killers who keep people in their basement and no one ever suspects a thing because the person goes on living as if everything were ok. All that matters is that he did what he did and that so many people and families have to deal with the aftermath. People are so obsessed with Hitler because he doesn’t make any sense. One article even stated that he got sick when he saw blood. Like Ian Kershaw said on the Charlie Rose show, Hitler shows people what humans are capable of, and that scares them. I also think that, as Americans and as people who weren’t alive during the Holocaust, we are desensitized to its true weight. Sometimes the things we read about in history can seem like stories from different worlds that don’t impact us, it is important to remember that each number was a soul that could have had 16 pages of articles written about their personality just like Hitler did.


I think that the most important thing to know about Hitler is that he was the man at the forefront of the Holocaust, and that he caused the deaths of millions of people. Though it is intriguing, I think focusing on what Hitler ate for breakfast and what his summer villa looked like takes away from the importance of recognizing the Jewish (and other) lives that he ended, and what potential they might have had.

This first sentence makes me wonder if Hitler was ever a normal person. It made me think of Stranger Things with the young boy who hid his evil tendenicies from his family without them knowing. This could have been what Hitler was doing, so Hitler could jsut be hiding his true personality, and the Hitler we saw when he was younger was just his persona.

Steely Gibbs
Posts: 22

Why are we so intrigued by Hitler?

History is made of what ifs. Ms. Freeman pointed this out to me in class today. There’s always another way that something could have happened. Imagine what the world would be like today if Hitler became a painter. In Hitler’s case, I think that he is the biggest what if. What if he chose a different group to target? What if he went about it a different way? What if people condemned him instead of following him?


I think it makes sense to be interested in Hitler and his character. Seeing him in the picture from the cigarette book in class made him look a bit naïve. This is incredibly contrasting to how he is portrayed later in his life. Without getting down to nitty gritty psychology, just trying to understand his motives are hard to do. The idea of Hitler kind of seems sensationalized, something so out of this world and not an immediate part of the present day. Trying to figure out what would drive someone to do such a thing is hard. There is no real rhyme to reason. He did what he did, but never really gave a good reason why.


Hitler’s earlier life didn’t seem bad. No tragic backstory, no Batman origin, nothing. Hitler’s house when he was an adult was the norm. Wasn’t destroyed, but it also wasn’t a palace. Hitler seemed like a commoner. He had a very similar story to many others, denied from an art school and wounded in the war. This wasn’t unique. This does propose the idea that a monster can be created from nothing. That may be the real reason why Hitler is so talked about.


I don’t think I generally understand Hitler better. I don’t know how knowing that he was a vegetarian or the fact that he loved his mom gives me a better insight to who he was. Knowing that his house looked over Austria and talked to gardeners everyday doesn’t help me or answer any of my questions. There’s a deeper layer that just wasn’t talked about. It just seems like Hitler was patriotic and wanted to help Germany by any means possible, to the extent of exterminating the Jews.


I think it is worthwhile to try and understand Hitler for the sake of history not repeating itself. Learning and studying makes it preventable. I think that is the biggest reason to learn.


I think that the most important thing is that there isn’t one set reason for Hitler turning out the way he did. There’s no excuse or loophole that permits the transformation of a citizen to the devil incarnate.
Snailaligator
Boston, MA, US
Posts: 19
We are so intrigued by Hitler because he demonstrates what humanity is capable of and the extent to how an individual can impact the world. In the Ian Kershaw interview, one of the first things that is discussed is a certain curiosity of evil. How can someone, no matter their background, commit such atrocities? The biggest takeaway for me is that none of the theories posing as justification for his actions should invoke sympathy. It can be helpful to learn more about Hitler’s personal life as an attempt at understanding the true psychology that drives a person to commit such actions, however, there needs to be a fine line between identifying causes, and flat out taking away responsibility. Additionally, with so much that is unknown about the actual thoughts and motivators driving Hitler’s decision making, there may not be so much academic value in reading through an extensive list of theories. Do we need to know Hitler’s “favorite South German gruel”? Of course not. One theory that was discussed in the Ian Kershaw interview that resonated with me was the idea that Hitler developed his resentment towards Jewish people through the doctor that cared for his mother. However, Kershaw quickly combats this saying that many sources actually state the contrary, that Hitler respected this doctor and knew that his mother’s death was not in their hands. To me, these theories simply pose as an easy answer to the Why question we all are asking. The fact that Hitler could do something so treacherous to a group of people without any personal resentment, but maybe merely out of a strategic thought-out plan to attain power makes us uncomfortable. Understanding Hitler is important in making sure that these circumstances are never made possible again, however, there needs to be a balance in our humanization of him. If we humanize him too much, we open up opportunities to view him as someone that should not be criticized, or even worse, as someone who becomes glorified. Throughout this country, with a rise in antisemitism, Hitler sympathizers are not uncommon. On the other end, when we dehumanize and distance ourselves too much from him, we overlook other individuals who are threatening human rights. At the end of the day, the most important thing to know about Adolf Hitler is his major role in WWII and his horrible actions as a genocider. When we become too obsessed with small details about humane aspects of his life, we may overlook the most important fact: Hitler was a monster.
the_rose_apple
Posts: 20

Just like serial killers and cold cases, we are intrigued by Hitler because we want to know why. Why did Hitler do the things he did? Why was he so cruel and merciless? Why did he fight so hard for a country that he wasn’t even technically from? Why did he think the way he did? Why did someone with a seemingly normal life become so hell-bent on restoring his version of justice for Germany which ended in the deaths of millions of people? All these questions and more are the reason that Hitler and so many others are being analyzed in depth by the public. The mystery behind their motives and how they managed to do everything they did without being punished is what keeps people so interested in him and other outliers in society. Not to mention that he was given power - he didn’t take it from someone else. Ian Kershaw explains how Hitler had been given the power with which he used his newfound voice to advocate for his beliefs, as twisted as they were, with the general public. Without that power, he might have never risen to become the Hitler we all know.


While most people would view him as being the personification of pure evil, he was a kid just like other people. He was a baby, he went to school, he liked art and music, and his garden. At first glance he seems perfectly fine and normal until you look at his later years. And while he isn’t responsible for everything that happened in World War 2, he is definitely the main perpetrator for the wars horrors. He related to the people of Germany who were suffering after the disaster that was the First World War. That popular support for him and the Nazi’s gave him power which he used to become the Hitler we all know and have learned about. As Ian Kershaw explains, Hitler and the German people found common ground which he used to spread his ideals and sadly many more joined his campaign. Germany’s cities and economy was devastated after the war and there was a growing feeling of resentment among many people that Hitler had picked up on. He had picked up on anti-semitism, the search/need for a scapegoat for the war, the anger, and the suffering of the people.


The articles and stories written about Hitler are like shows and articles written nowadays to keep people informed about their favorite celebrities drama and how they live their daily lives. They entertain people and in a way also let them take a sneak peak about what goes on in their head. Hitlers, whose modest house and garden he loved, probably interested many people who had similar houses or other politicians who wanted to know more about his life for whatever reason. Articles and stories about celebrities (and for criminals) are interesting because others can see not only how the other side live, but specifically how “trending” people live their lives. They don’t all have to be artists or an influencer - they can be criminals too. Regardless of who they are, people will always be interested to see and know what they have, where they live, and love to find out how they go about their day.


The big “takeaways” are that the Hitler we know and always look in the textbooks became that after a hard time in his life. Although in the article “Hitler’s Mountain Home” it talks about how he was always described as being a “droll raconteur” when hosting others in his house. But other than being an awkward host, everything he did, like be a vegetarian and his questionable friendships, he did nothing out of the order, especially knowing what he did later on in his lif. While there is still many blank spot that I wish we could know, I understand him a bit better now and I think it is interesting to find out more, but unless someone can find the “why” behind it all and explain the spots left blank (very, very, very hard) then it is not worthwhile. It is however important to learn about him and his regime to hopefully avoid it in the future, but I do still think it is necessary for us to see how Hitler was a regular person and even regular people can do horrible things.

the_rose_apple
Posts: 20

Originally posted by Snailaligator on March 09, 2023 22:10

We are so intrigued by Hitler because he demonstrates what humanity is capable of and the extent to how an individual can impact the world. In the Ian Kershaw interview, one of the first things that is discussed is a certain curiosity of evil. How can someone, no matter their background, commit such atrocities? The biggest takeaway for me is that none of the theories posing as justification for his actions should invoke sympathy. It can be helpful to learn more about Hitler’s personal life as an attempt at understanding the true psychology that drives a person to commit such actions, however, there needs to be a fine line between identifying causes, and flat out taking away responsibility. Additionally, with so much that is unknown about the actual thoughts and motivators driving Hitler’s decision making, there may not be so much academic value in reading through an extensive list of theories. Do we need to know Hitler’s “favorite South German gruel”? Of course not. One theory that was discussed in the Ian Kershaw interview that resonated with me was the idea that Hitler developed his resentment towards Jewish people through the doctor that cared for his mother. However, Kershaw quickly combats this saying that many sources actually state the contrary, that Hitler respected this doctor and knew that his mother’s death was not in their hands. To me, these theories simply pose as an easy answer to the Why question we all are asking. The fact that Hitler could do something so treacherous to a group of people without any personal resentment, but maybe merely out of a strategic thought-out plan to attain power makes us uncomfortable. Understanding Hitler is important in making sure that these circumstances are never made possible again, however, there needs to be a balance in our humanization of him. If we humanize him too much, we open up opportunities to view him as someone that should not be criticized, or even worse, as someone who becomes glorified. Throughout this country, with a rise in antisemitism, Hitler sympathizers are not uncommon. On the other end, when we dehumanize and distance ourselves too much from him, we overlook other individuals who are threatening human rights. At the end of the day, the most important thing to know about Adolf Hitler is his major role in WWII and his horrible actions as a genocider. When we become too obsessed with small details about humane aspects of his life, we may overlook the most important fact: Hitler was a monster.

I agree with your idea of there being a fine line between identifying causes and taking away responsibilities. I feel like that is happening a lot in the US, where many blame the crimes that others commit on something which makes people think they aren’t as guilty as they actually are. Hitler knew what he was doing and he did not regret it. No matter what happened in his life, nothing can justify or take away the responsibility he had for the deaths of millions of people.

palmtreepuppy
Posts: 13

we are we so intrigued by hitler

In my opinion, the reason that we are so intrigued bu Hitler and trying to understand him so bad is such a consuming thing is that there are so many layers to his story and being but we will really never have a clear explanation as to why he did the things he did. I think that what makes it so interesting trying to understand him and is why we still talk about him with such curiosity to this day is that there was really no one reason or event that can be attributed to everything that was Hitler but I think the never having a solid or confirmed answer just adds fuel to the fire. Who knows if it is really for bad or for good but I think we really just want to know how someone could commit such acts of pure hatred and evil and really leave no reason why (not that a simple explanation would “fix” or excuse anything he did by any means). I personally don't think this really compares to celebrities in any way but more is the fascination of the image of evil he created, promoted and stood for. For the celebs listed in the question I think it's more about how really rich and famous people act, especially being under such a magnifying glass of society.To me he is in a very bad league of his own which is a hard feat to accomplish. Not to say that he was the only person to commit an act of genocide or mass murder but more the scale in which he did it that really fascinate people. He is not responsible for every single bad thing to happen in WW2 but mostly everything that happened was a result of his actions. For example, he didn’t cause the American government to imprison Asian Americans during the war, that was a solo act by the US and can’t be designated as a result of hitler. It has been said before that regardless of the pure hatred that spewed out of Hitlers mind and mouth were highly disgusting and destructive, he was a very strong public speaker and did have very philosophical ways of thinking. I think one could say that they are similar to the talk shows and gossip shows that we have just because of the pure fascination with other people's lives but i don’t think that in today's society the talk shows now would dare venture into those territories of topic. The big takeaway that I gathered is that no matter how hard we try we will never truly understand hitler. We can try as hard as we want and pour as many resources as we have available but the answer will never be a clear answer. I think I do have a little bit better understanding of Hitler but as interesting as it is, I don’t think the search to understand him is a worthwhile one, unless people are okay with not getting a clear answer. At the end of the day i think the most important thing to know is that regardless how scary the thought is, Hitler was just a normal person (until he wasn’t) and there really isn't anything stopping someone from having somewhat of a similar path in life.
sand
Posts: 20

Why are we so intrigued by Hitler?

I personally think the big takeaway and most important thing is that a lot of the intrigue surrounding Hitler stems from human nature. I feel like we tend to think of big things having a big effect, in which case the opposite must be true as well. I suppose you could think of it almost like in terms of a natural disaster: a major disaster will have major devastation, so it’s perfectly reasonable to conclude that major devastation was caused by a major disaster. World War II was a pivotal moment during the course of the 20th century- arguably during the course of human history because of the sheer scale and size of the horrors that took place- with Hitler as the face of it all. Because of that direct connection, when we look for answers about the events of WWII, we look to him. I think it’s human to take in the twisted events and seek the twisted individual behind them- because there’s no way a “normal” person can be responsible for those things. That line of reasoning is why I think journalists like Janet Flanner and Ignatius Phayre need to know and report on Hitler’s life- down to the very details of his diet and his daily 9:00 am talks to the gardener- and why readers will gobble it all up. They think they need an answer, but really what they need is evidence to back their preexisting notions. It’s unacceptable to think that a rejected artist could cause the deadliest war in all of human history. There *has* to be something else, right?


I don’t think trying to understand him is a worthwhile pursuit. I personally couldn’t care less about Flanner’s reports about Hitler’s inability to get women to like him, or Kershaw’s claim that he in fact respected the Jewish doctor who attended to his mother, or even Phayre’s accounts of his impeccable home decor. I don’t think it’s fair to compare these articles to the 1930’s versions of celebrity gossip/talk shows simply because of their subject matter. Sure they might be presented in a similar fashion, but one is about which movie star is dating which pop singer, while the other is about an enduring symbol of hate. You could give a powerpoint presentation on the definitive ranking of all the Barbie movies, and a powerpoint presentation on the ethics (or lack thereof) of FIFA. Delivered the same way? Sure. Can you really compare the subject matter? Nope.


What I think trying to “understand” him results in, is the truth getting muddled. We talked about in class how they’re are countless theories about Hitler- from his sexuality, to where his anti-semitism stemmed from, to the possibility he had his testicle bitten off by a goat (sorry Ms. Freeman, you know I had to mention it). The most prominent one for me is the doctor theory- the one that his anti-semitism stemmed from his hatred of a Jewish doctor that attended to his sick mother- which is probably bs. But when you so desperately want “answers”, it makes total sense that you’d eventually reach the point where you start to make things up. It makes sense that when you don’t reach a conclusion that satisfies, you convince yourself that you *haven’t* reached the conclusion- that there *must* be more.


With all that being said, I guess the opposite can also be applied. I have no desire to understand Hitler- I don’t believe there’s anything to understand beyond the fact that he was a monster. It’s what I believe, and it’s why I’m so dismissive of additional information- it’s worthless to me because it changes nothing. The fact that he was vegetarian but still encouraged the murder and torture of innocent people isn’t more mindboggling to me than the sole fact that *he encouraged the murder and torture of innocent people*. It’s already so messed up that adding another layer to it doesn’t make him more complicated to me, it reinforces that he is not someone who can be understood no matter how much people may want to.
sand
Posts: 20

Originally posted by palmtreepuppy on March 09, 2023 23:12

In my opinion, the reason that we are so intrigued bu Hitler and trying to understand him so bad is such a consuming thing is that there are so many layers to his story and being but we will really never have a clear explanation as to why he did the things he did. I think that what makes it so interesting trying to understand him and is why we still talk about him with such curiosity to this day is that there was really no one reason or event that can be attributed to everything that was Hitler but I think the never having a solid or confirmed answer just adds fuel to the fire. Who knows if it is really for bad or for good but I think we really just want to know how someone could commit such acts of pure hatred and evil and really leave no reason why (not that a simple explanation would “fix” or excuse anything he did by any means). I personally don't think this really compares to celebrities in any way but more is the fascination of the image of evil he created, promoted and stood for. For the celebs listed in the question I think it's more about how really rich and famous people act, especially being under such a magnifying glass of society.To me he is in a very bad league of his own which is a hard feat to accomplish. Not to say that he was the only person to commit an act of genocide or mass murder but more the scale in which he did it that really fascinate people. He is not responsible for every single bad thing to happen in WW2 but mostly everything that happened was a result of his actions. For example, he didn’t cause the American government to imprison Asian Americans during the war, that was a solo act by the US and can’t be designated as a result of hitler. It has been said before that regardless of the pure hatred that spewed out of Hitlers mind and mouth were highly disgusting and destructive, he was a very strong public speaker and did have very philosophical ways of thinking. I think one could say that they are similar to the talk shows and gossip shows that we have just because of the pure fascination with other people's lives but i don’t think that in today's society the talk shows now would dare venture into those territories of topic. The big takeaway that I gathered is that no matter how hard we try we will never truly understand hitler. We can try as hard as we want and pour as many resources as we have available but the answer will never be a clear answer. I think I do have a little bit better understanding of Hitler but as interesting as it is, I don’t think the search to understand him is a worthwhile one, unless people are okay with not getting a clear answer. At the end of the day i think the most important thing to know is that regardless how scary the thought is, Hitler was just a normal person (until he wasn’t) and there really isn't anything stopping someone from having somewhat of a similar path in life.

I definitely agree that he can't be compared to celebrities because of the enormous gap in their actions. Do you think that because information about him was presented in that way, it had any impact on how people at the time perceived him? Flanner hurled insult after insult in her writing to portray him as just a meek outcast, so could that have had any impact on how people viewed him? Perhaps coupled with the lack of information at the time about the Holocaust, could it have fueled (especially American) dismissal of what was going on in Europe?

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