learntoquestion ltq discussions

This assignment builds on what you did in class during the week of February 6, including the web investigation, the documentary film, our discussion of the Armenian genocide timeline, and the information about Armenian genocide denial.

In this post, here are the questions I want you to address:

• What do you unequivocally believe is true about these events? Is there anything that you question or doubt? Please be specific.
• How do you identify what “real history” is and what isn’t “real”? How can you tell? Please cite specifics.
• How would YOU respond to the Turkish government’s position on these events, based on the exchange of correspondence with St. John? Explain your reasoning with some detail.

Be sure you comment on the thoughts of at least two of your peers who have posted prior to your post.

I wholeheartedly believe that the Armenian genocide was true. While looking at the hundreds of images and first-hand accounts of the genocide it is hard to ignore the truth right in front of your eyes. When looking into the eyes of the refugees you can see their helpless and defeated expressions. The images of people, especially kids, who were malnourished to the point they became piles of bones. It is hard to ignore the intent behind the genocide, which teh Turkish government was becuase the Armenian people were revolting against them and therefore they had no other options; but this isn't true. The real reason for the unjust murdering and erasing of millions of Armenians was because of religion; they wouldn't welcome the religious intolerance of the Turkish government. This can be seen in the priests the Turkish government tortured and murdered, which is a hate-filled act because they are considered some of the holiest people on Earth. In one image of a young boy, Mousheghik, he has holes in his hands from being crucified.

I doubt that no other countries didn't know what was going on with the Turkish government and the Armenian people because it is hard to miss a mass genocide. I believe that because the genocide wasn't infiltrating the war, no one wanted to pay attention because it would only distract them from WW 2. They believed it wasn't their issue because it wasn't on a world scale. I am not surprised the rest of the world turned their backs on the Armenian people, because we love to do that when people need the most help. I am disappointed that the Turkish government and the world as a whole have chosen to try and erase this part of history; it reminds me of the US and our history with racism. They are trying to protect their image.

What is real? People can believe anything someone else says. Instead of being a sheep that follows we should push back and learn. Real history is made up of real evidence, like the photographs and the words of the victims affected by the genocide. The "fake" history is what the Turkish government is spewing out, and what they are putting into their citizens' brains. Their water-downed version of the genocide, not only deprives people of the truth but also forces the Armenians to have to educate people about their genocide. The more "fake" history the Turkish government puts out the harder it is for people, around the world, to remember the American people's history.

The exchange between the Turkish government and St.John was more about covering up their history. They said that the Armenian genocide wasn't a genocide, and they compared it to the Holocaust because the Armenian people tried to revolt against the government so they were justified in murdering millions of them. This comparison is useless because when they could Jewish people tried to revolt against the Nazis.

What I would do in my response to the Turkish government is bring more evidence, because it is hard to dispute hard evidence. St. John asked more questions than trying to argue with them, but they didn't directly answer a single one of his questions. I believe the American people deserve reparations, mostly in the form of acknowledgment, and that is exactly what I would say to the Turkish government. No matter if they agree that it was a genocide or not, millions of Armenians were killed, and that is the story that deserves to be held. When discussing genocide people somethings like to focus on the ones causing the genocide, and while they are important. we should focus on telling the personal stories of the victims; spreading their story is the same as sharing the historical knowledge surrounding the genocide.

What do you unequivocally believe is true about these events? Is there anything that you question or doubt? Please be specific.

How do you identify what “real history” is and what isn’t “real”? How can you tell? Please cite specifics.

How would YOU respond to the Turkish government’s position on these events, based on the exchange of correspondence with St. John? Explain your reasoning with some detail.

I fully believe that all these events occurred and it is all just trying to be covered up. There are eyewitness accounts from both sides confirming all the terrible events that took place with I think proves the credibility behind it. Not only were the accounts truly gut-wrenching to read about but the images really tear at the heart and are raw and true to the horrors occurring at the time. The government of Turkey is blatantly ignoring the mass murder of millions of innocent people and when called out defends it because they drew up arms as well... I don't question a single statement given by victims and fully believe the account of the Turkish official.

I identify what is real vs a lie by evidence which is very clearly around to this day. There are countless images, of people speaking out their truth constantly and still mourning the loss of loved ones and culture. Considering the many many statements from bystanders and even prosecutors of the genocide one can very well tell how true the story rings. In some images, you can see the pure horror and depression in little children's eyes and faces, in the adults', a grim fear grips them as we look at their death-ridden bodies. They call out to the empathy in people and that in and of itself gives it some truth. There would be no reason for Armenians to make fake images of starved corpses piled together and orphans in the streets so what is the reason behind the ignorance? Cowardness. It's terrible. The accounts of the woman on the train witnessing the casual murdering of Armenians on the tracks are brutal, especially with the conductor laughing about "smashing the Armenian swine." The sad part is that I wasn't even surprised things like that happened commonly considering the general acceptance of the murdering of Armenians.

I personally would be very frustrated if I got that response but at the same time, I would read between the lines and see that they said it had happened but for "good reason" since they, unlike the Jews, fought back, even though they did fight back... I am honestly not sure how or what I would have done but I would have taken some kind of action and maybe reached out to popular news channels or reporters about it and maybe have them write an article and inclued voices in our communities about this issue.

I unequivocally believe that the Armenian genocide was caused purely by religious differences and religious prejudice / discrimination. Differences in belief and ideas led to the mass killing of a group of people. The only thing I doubt is the reasoning that the Ottoman Empire used to justify the mass killing, pillaging, and deportation of the Armenians. It’s extremely ridiculous, but it’s also not surprising that the Young Turks blamed the Armenians for supposedly conspiring with foreign powers to push for Armenian reforms in the territory of the Ottoman Empire. The Armenians were simply viewed and used as another scapegoat for the failure of the Young Turks party, as well as a way of freely displaying their religious prejudice.

I think it is difficult to identify what “real history” is and what isn’t “real”. However, I think the best way to identify what is “real” history is through primary sources from many different sources. I think this is really important, because it provides different perspectives from opposing sides of history. This can range from official documents and transcripts to diaries and letters of common soldiers and people. However, I still think that these documents and letters must have similar details within them to prove that a specific event existed. On a related note, I think this can be correlated with the denial of an event, like the Rape of Nanjing or the Armenian genocide. The Rape of Nanjing is heavily denied to have existed by the Japanese, with this being backed up by the lack of evidence — destroyed evidence — that the Japanese never committed such atrocities. With the Armenian genocide, it is illegal to recognize the genocide or to even discuss it. Despite this, international communities have recognized both the Rape of Nanjing and the Armenian genocide as atrocities that deserve reparations and formal apologies, but there has been little to no response from the nations responsible.

Recognizing what is “real” and “fake” history can also be extremely difficult due to several factors: destroying evidence, “rewriting” history, and changing the views of the people. Events that violate human rights and morality in general, typically genocides, have evidence destroyed. Bodies are burned rather than buried and documents that carry out the deaths or deportation of thousands are also destroyed. Due to this, there are extremely rough estimates of casualties, which always tend to have a wide range. “Rewriting” history and changing the views of the people correlate with each other, typically focused on how these events are learned and viewed. Within the slides, it stated that Armenian orphans were sent to Turkish households to be “Turkified”, which is similar to what Americans had done to “assimilate” Native American children. Children are extremely susceptible to the environment they are in, both physically and psychologically. With these actions, the culture and identity of the child is changed to someone they were not originally. This reduces the population of the targeted population and effectively “converts” the children. Aside from cultural assimilation, people are led to believe specific things about a targeted population or event, which involves dehumanizing or a necessary requirement to do something about the population. However, I think this aspect is really based on the perspective of people. It could be the people’s truth, but it is not the truth. To a different group of people, it might not be a righteous or necessary cause, but to them, it might be. This is what leads to the conflict of one side having history of specific events and people, but another side having zero context of a situation or completely writing a different narrative to justify what occurred.

The Turkish government’s response to the Armenian genocide is borderline delusional. The first point made was that “How many people perished during WWI is not known nor has it been properly documented to date” (Paragraph 2), which basically stated that “war is war, people die, it’s a product of war”. Even if PoW (Prisoner of War) laws were not in place at the time of WWI, the comparison of state of being between an enemy soldier in a country’s captivity and a victim of the Armenian genocide would be day and night. Children, even babies, are clearly seen in pictures to be close to the state of a skeleton, with bodies piled on top of each other. The claim that the Armenians were “conspiring” with Russians is another case of pure paranoia, scapegoating, and blatant hatred. The supposed “[R]elocation (not deportation since they were not sent outside of the Empire)” (Paragraph 3) is also pushing terminology to the nitty gritty. The Armenians were not pushed out of the Ottoman Empire, yes, but they were pushed out of the place they called home for centuries and into the Syrian Desert with the intent of killing Armenians through pure exhaustion, lack of resources, or execution.

What makes this even more ridiculous is that the letter claimed “[M]ost young Armenians are filled with hate from a young age in the diaspora of this issue and some even resort to violence with the misplaced anger planted in their hearts” (Paragraph 5). They are shifting away from the idea that the Ottoman Empire was responsible, and that it is simply a case of Armenians being aggressive, which backs up a previous point of dehumanizing a certain group. There is a constant back and forth of stating that there were deaths of many Armenians, but not to the extent of it being deemed a “genocide”, even if there are multiple pieces of evidence showing that it was carried out with the intention of wiping out the Armenian population.

Originally posted by arcoiris18 on February 07, 2023 10:37

I wholeheartedly believe that the Armenian genocide was true. While looking at the hundreds of images and first-hand accounts of the genocide it is hard to ignore the truth right in front of your eyes. When looking into the eyes of the refugees you can see their helpless and defeated expressions. The images of people, especially kids, who were malnourished to the point they became piles of bones. It is hard to ignore the intent behind the genocide, which teh Turkish government was becuase the Armenian people were revolting against them and therefore they had no other options; but this isn't true. The real reason for the unjust murdering and erasing of millions of Armenians was because of religion; they wouldn't welcome the religious intolerance of the Turkish government. This can be seen in the priests the Turkish government tortured and murdered, which is a hate-filled act because they are considered some of the holiest people on Earth. In one image of a young boy, Mousheghik, he has holes in his hands from being crucified.

I doubt that no other countries didn't know what was going on with the Turkish government and the Armenian people because it is hard to miss a mass genocide. I believe that because the genocide wasn't infiltrating the war, no one wanted to pay attention because it would only distract them from WW 2. They believed it wasn't their issue because it wasn't on a world scale. I am not surprised the rest of the world turned their backs on the Armenian people, because we love to do that when people need the most help. I am disappointed that the Turkish government and the world as a whole have chosen to try and erase this part of history; it reminds me of the US and our history with racism. They are trying to protect their image.

What is real? People can believe anything someone else says. Instead of being a sheep that follows we should push back and learn. Real history is made up of real evidence, like the photographs and the words of the victims affected by the genocide. The "fake" history is what the Turkish government is spewing out, and what they are putting into their citizens' brains. Their water-downed version of the genocide, not only deprives people of the truth but also forces the Armenians to have to educate people about their genocide. The more "fake" history the Turkish government puts out the harder it is for people, around the world, to remember the American people's history.

The exchange between the Turkish government and St.John was more about covering up their history. They said that the Armenian genocide wasn't a genocide, and they compared it to the Holocaust because the Armenian people tried to revolt against the government so they were justified in murdering millions of them. This comparison is useless because when they could Jewish people tried to revolt against the Nazis.

What I would do in my response to the Turkish government is bring more evidence, because it is hard to dispute hard evidence. St. John asked more questions than trying to argue with them, but they didn't directly answer a single one of his questions. I believe the American people deserve reparations, mostly in the form of acknowledgment, and that is exactly what I would say to the Turkish government. No matter if they agree that it was a genocide or not, millions of Armenians were killed, and that is the story that deserves to be held. When discussing genocide people somethings like to focus on the ones causing the genocide, and while they are important. we should focus on telling the personal stories of the victims; spreading their story is the same as sharing the historical knowledge surrounding the genocide.

Regarding reparations, I think telling the stories of the victims is a good alternative to paid reparations, as it's basically impossible that Turkey will pay reparations to the few Armenians living in Turkey. I also agree with your thoughts about what is "real" and "fake" history, as the history being taught to the Turkish people may be their perspective of what their truth is, but it is not the truth.

Originally posted by glass on February 07, 2023 13:55

What do you unequivocally believe is true about these events? Is there anything that you question or doubt? Please be specific.

How do you identify what “real history” is and what isn’t “real”? How can you tell? Please cite specifics.

How would YOU respond to the Turkish government’s position on these events, based on the exchange of correspondence with St. John? Explain your reasoning with some detail.

I fully believe that all these events occurred and it is all just trying to be covered up. There are eyewitness accounts from both sides confirming all the terrible events that took place with I think proves the credibility behind it. Not only were the accounts truly gut-wrenching to read about but the images really tear at the heart and are raw and true to the horrors occurring at the time. The government of Turkey is blatantly ignoring the mass murder of millions of innocent people and when called out defends it because they drew up arms as well... I don't question a single statement given by victims and fully believe the account of the Turkish official.

I identify what is real vs a lie by evidence which is very clearly around to this day. There are countless images, of people speaking out their truth constantly and still mourning the loss of loved ones and culture. Considering the many many statements from bystanders and even prosecutors of the genocide one can very well tell how true the story rings. In some images, you can see the pure horror and depression in little children's eyes and faces, in the adults', a grim fear grips them as we look at their death-ridden bodies. They call out to the empathy in people and that in and of itself gives it some truth. There would be no reason for Armenians to make fake images of starved corpses piled together and orphans in the streets so what is the reason behind the ignorance? Cowardness. It's terrible. The accounts of the woman on the train witnessing the casual murdering of Armenians on the tracks are brutal, especially with the conductor laughing about "smashing the Armenian swine." The sad part is that I wasn't even surprised things like that happened commonly considering the general acceptance of the murdering of Armenians.

I personally would be very frustrated if I got that response but at the same time, I would read between the lines and see that they said it had happened but for "good reason" since they, unlike the Jews, fought back, even though they did fight back... I am honestly not sure how or what I would have done but I would have taken some kind of action and maybe reached out to popular news channels or reporters about it and maybe have them write an article and inclued voices in our communities about this issue.

I largely agree with your statements about the truth that the images bring, displaying pure atrocities to the public. However, I also noticed that some photos had no detailed captions, nor someone to credit the photo for. I think it's largely possible that many photos displaying starved corpses lying in the middle of a ditch or dying orphans were not largely shown to the people of the Ottoman Empire, in case it would cause any ethnic or moral doubts among the public.

Originally posted by glass on February 07, 2023 13:55

What do you unequivocally believe is true about these events? Is there anything that you question or doubt? Please be specific.

How do you identify what “real history” is and what isn’t “real”? How can you tell? Please cite specifics.

How would YOU respond to the Turkish government’s position on these events, based on the exchange of correspondence with St. John? Explain your reasoning with some detail.

I fully believe that all these events occurred and it is all just trying to be covered up. There are eyewitness accounts from both sides confirming all the terrible events that took place with I think proves the credibility behind it. Not only were the accounts truly gut-wrenching to read about but the images really tear at the heart and are raw and true to the horrors occurring at the time. The government of Turkey is blatantly ignoring the mass murder of millions of innocent people and when called out defends it because they drew up arms as well... I don't question a single statement given by victims and fully believe the account of the Turkish official.

I identify what is real vs a lie by evidence which is very clearly around to this day. There are countless images, of people speaking out their truth constantly and still mourning the loss of loved ones and culture. Considering the many many statements from bystanders and even prosecutors of the genocide one can very well tell how true the story rings. In some images, you can see the pure horror and depression in little children's eyes and faces, in the adults', a grim fear grips them as we look at their death-ridden bodies. They call out to the empathy in people and that in and of itself gives it some truth. There would be no reason for Armenians to make fake images of starved corpses piled together and orphans in the streets so what is the reason behind the ignorance? Cowardness. It's terrible. The accounts of the woman on the train witnessing the casual murdering of Armenians on the tracks are brutal, especially with the conductor laughing about "smashing the Armenian swine." The sad part is that I wasn't even surprised things like that happened commonly considering the general acceptance of the murdering of Armenians.

I personally would be very frustrated if I got that response but at the same time, I would read between the lines and see that they said it had happened but for "good reason" since they, unlike the Jews, fought back, even though they did fight back... I am honestly not sure how or what I would have done but I would have taken some kind of action and maybe reached out to popular news channels or reporters about it and maybe have them write an article and inclued voices in our communities about this issue.

I fully agree with the statement of believing the statements given by the victims, I think it is so important that inorder to keep teaching others and learning about this Genocide is believing. I would also be furetsated with the response if I was St John, and also a little confused by the actions of an entire government by not owning up to their history. I agree with you that preaidng this message, and even St John's letter and the repsnse he received, to others is a good way to spread the message because of people don't believe the physical history at least they can see the covering up of the Turkish government.

Originally posted by BigGulpFrom711 on February 08, 2023 08:20

I unequivocally believe that the Armenian genocide was caused purely by religious differences and religious prejudice / discrimination. Differences in belief and ideas led to the mass killing of a group of people. The only thing I doubt is the reasoning that the Ottoman Empire used to justify the mass killing, pillaging, and deportation of the Armenians. It’s extremely ridiculous, but it’s also not surprising that the Young Turks blamed the Armenians for supposedly conspiring with foreign powers to push for Armenian reforms in the territory of the Ottoman Empire. The Armenians were simply viewed and used as another scapegoat for the failure of the Young Turks party, as well as a way of freely displaying their religious prejudice.

I think it is difficult to identify what “real history” is and what isn’t “real”. However, I think the best way to identify what is “real” history is through primary sources from many different sources. I think this is really important, because it provides different perspectives from opposing sides of history. This can range from official documents and transcripts to diaries and letters of common soldiers and people. However, I still think that these documents and letters must have similar details within them to prove that a specific event existed. On a related note, I think this can be correlated with the denial of an event, like the Rape of Nanjing or the Armenian genocide. The Rape of Nanjing is heavily denied to have existed by the Japanese, with this being backed up by the lack of evidence — destroyed evidence — that the Japanese never committed such atrocities. With the Armenian genocide, it is illegal to recognize the genocide or to even discuss it. Despite this, international communities have recognized both the Rape of Nanjing and the Armenian genocide as atrocities that deserve reparations and formal apologies, but there has been little to no response from the nations responsible.

Recognizing what is “real” and “fake” history can also be extremely difficult due to several factors: destroying evidence, “rewriting” history, and changing the views of the people. Events that violate human rights and morality in general, typically genocides, have evidence destroyed. Bodies are burned rather than buried and documents that carry out the deaths or deportation of thousands are also destroyed. Due to this, there are extremely rough estimates of casualties, which always tend to have a wide range. “Rewriting” history and changing the views of the people correlate with each other, typically focused on how these events are learned and viewed. Within the slides, it stated that Armenian orphans were sent to Turkish households to be “Turkified”, which is similar to what Americans had done to “assimilate” Native American children. Children are extremely susceptible to the environment they are in, both physically and psychologically. With these actions, the culture and identity of the child is changed to someone they were not originally. This reduces the population of the targeted population and effectively “converts” the children. Aside from cultural assimilation, people are led to believe specific things about a targeted population or event, which involves dehumanizing or a necessary requirement to do something about the population. However, I think this aspect is really based on the perspective of people. It could be the people’s truth, but it is not the truth. To a different group of people, it might not be a righteous or necessary cause, but to them, it might be. This is what leads to the conflict of one side having history of specific events and people, but another side having zero context of a situation or completely writing a different narrative to justify what occurred.

The Turkish government’s response to the Armenian genocide is borderline delusional. The first point made was that “How many people perished during WWI is not known nor has it been properly documented to date” (Paragraph 2), which basically stated that “war is war, people die, it’s a product of war”. Even if PoW (Prisoner of War) laws were not in place at the time of WWI, the comparison of state of being between an enemy soldier in a country’s captivity and a victim of the Armenian genocide would be day and night. Children, even babies, are clearly seen in pictures to be close to the state of a skeleton, with bodies piled on top of each other. The claim that the Armenians were “conspiring” with Russians is another case of pure paranoia, scapegoating, and blatant hatred. The supposed “[R]elocation (not deportation since they were not sent outside of the Empire)” (Paragraph 3) is also pushing terminology to the nitty gritty. The Armenians were not pushed out of the Ottoman Empire, yes, but they were pushed out of the place they called home for centuries and into the Syrian Desert with the intent of killing Armenians through pure exhaustion, lack of resources, or execution.

What makes this even more ridiculous is that the letter claimed “[M]ost young Armenians are filled with hate from a young age in the diaspora of this issue and some even resort to violence with the misplaced anger planted in their hearts” (Paragraph 5). They are shifting away from the idea that the Ottoman Empire was responsible, and that it is simply a case of Armenians being aggressive, which backs up a previous point of dehumanizing a certain group. There is a constant back and forth of stating that there were deaths of many Armenians, but not to the extent of it being deemed a “genocide”, even if there are multiple pieces of evidence showing that it was carried out with the intention of wiping out the Armenian population.

"The Turkish government’s response to the Armenian genocide is borderline delusional." I definitely agree with your quote and also that the covering up of their history is even more sloppy since they tiptoe around the genocide and the facts. I also agree that regardless of the prisoner-of-war law and the legality of war that surrounds it, there is no reason for children to be tortured. As you mentioned they were starved to the point of starvation just because of who they are, which they have no control over. “[M]ost young Armenians are filled with hate from a young age in the diaspora of this issue and some even resort to violence with the misplaced anger planted in their hearts." This quote is something I think a lot of adults think of when they deakl with young people; they think every single thought a child will have make them resort to violence. It is also not fair to pin this just on some thought of how Armenain children are as a whole, this idea is also similar to the ideas of eguentics and that that people are inherterly on a scale of knoelgde just based on who their parents are.

These events are all unequivocally true, there is no denying that the genocide, displacement, and overall attempt to ethnically cleanse the Armenian people was carried out by the Ottoman-Turkish government. We have photo evidence, written evidence, and physical evidence. There are still areas in Turkey that have masses of bones ready to be collected with just the placement of the hand on the soil. There is nothing I doubt that these survivors say, they are risking their lives to tell their stories and to do anything but believe them is evil.

Real history can be determined by evidence, although there are many things in history people like to deny, discredit, or ignore. There are many parts of history that we have evidence of, and that we know happened. “Real” history is history that makes people feel better, the teaching U.S. history is a great example of this, a lot of it happened, but there is so much history ignored, and discredited due to white supremisit values that are so deeply ingrained in our society. It can be difficult to know when history is real sometimes, due to the way that “real” history can be presented. The best way to know what truly happened is to diversify your education, find everything you can on that topic and make sure that they line up, if they don’t something isn’t real.

Although I would like to say I’m surprised that the Turkish government is denying this, frankly, I’m not. Governments all over the world do things just to make themselves look better, and this is no exception, they refuse to believe they did anything wrong and will not let anyone see a weakness in them. To go back on their word now is to show a sign of not only holding a corrupt and inhumane past, but to give in, to become weak. Turkey is a very useful country for others to ally themselves with, and if they project a weak image that could ruin a lot of their reputation. At the end of the day, the government is putting themselves first, because even today, they truely do not care about the Armenian people, or the genocide that they created.

The Armenian genocide 100% happened. The photos in the webquest should really persuade anyone. There was one specific photo that really stuck with me. It was an Armenian young boy, an orphan. (I also want to mention the amount of children that were labeled as orphans is insane, but it really proves just how merciless this genocide was) The picture only showed the chest up of the boy, but it was obvious he had been reduced down to bones. Starvation like that can really only happen in devastating cases such as genocide. But- what really stuck with me was his face. He looked so much older than he was. Yes this could be partially due to the starvation factor, but I think it has a whole lot to do with trauma. Obviously, the kind of trauma that came with this genocide is unimaginable, and it really does show on his face. These victims were in a constant state of terror because of the unthinkable crimes committed against them. I didn’t really question or doubt anything because I don’t really believe people would go through so much trouble to lie about such a devastating event.

Honestly, I used to just believe that everything I was taught in history classes was real, because there was no reason for a textbook to lie, but over the years I have realized that so much rich history is left behind, and the history that we are presented with is often sugar coated. I mean, for years children learned about the “great” adventures of Columbus and his “amazing” discovery, only to later find out he was a really horrible guy who unjustly stole land from Indigenous people. In the case of the Armenian genocide, I think it was clear that the Turks want to wipe out the Armenians. Within the chronology slideshow, it began with the stores, but even then you can tell there is an obvious divide, but this doesn’t automatically mean genocide, right? Well then the Armenian people begin getting accused. Then we see a slow descent of them losing their rights. They are moved, killed- the Turks basically did everything they could to get rid of this specific group of people, and that's what makes it real. The victims of this genocide speaking about it in the film also showed me how real this was. There was one woman who was talking about the time she was taken away from her mother, and had to watch many Armenians get their throats slit. Even though she didn't physically see her mother die, she knew her mother had been killed in the same manner. The brutality of this memory is bad enough, but the woman doesn’t seem too emotional while speaking. Some may argue this is because she is lying, but I think it is because she has become so desensitized to violence.

Honestly, I would have laughed at the response. It is just such a stupid way to try to divert from the problem. I am not sure if I would have emailed again to be honest, but I would definitely try to get their response out in the mainstream media, and try to get more people to talk about the genocide, which would hopefully in turn force the Turkish embassy to at least acknowledge the genocide.

Originally posted by arcoiris18 on February 07, 2023 10:37

I do agree acknowledgement must happen, but I think much much much more needs to happen as well.

I wholeheartedly believe that the Armenian genocide was true. While looking at the hundreds of images and first-hand accounts of the genocide it is hard to ignore the truth right in front of your eyes. When looking into the eyes of the refugees you can see their helpless and defeated expressions. The images of people, especially kids, who were malnourished to the point they became piles of bones. It is hard to ignore the intent behind the genocide, which teh Turkish government was becuase the Armenian people were revolting against them and therefore they had no other options; but this isn't true. The real reason for the unjust murdering and erasing of millions of Armenians was because of religion; they wouldn't welcome the religious intolerance of the Turkish government. This can be seen in the priests the Turkish government tortured and murdered, which is a hate-filled act because they are considered some of the holiest people on Earth. In one image of a young boy, Mousheghik, he has holes in his hands from being crucified.

I doubt that no other countries didn't know what was going on with the Turkish government and the Armenian people because it is hard to miss a mass genocide. I believe that because the genocide wasn't infiltrating the war, no one wanted to pay attention because it would only distract them from WW 2. They believed it wasn't their issue because it wasn't on a world scale. I am not surprised the rest of the world turned their backs on the Armenian people, because we love to do that when people need the most help. I am disappointed that the Turkish government and the world as a whole have chosen to try and erase this part of history; it reminds me of the US and our history with racism. They are trying to protect their image.

What is real? People can believe anything someone else says. Instead of being a sheep that follows we should push back and learn. Real history is made up of real evidence, like the photographs and the words of the victims affected by the genocide. The "fake" history is what the Turkish government is spewing out, and what they are putting into their citizens' brains. Their water-downed version of the genocide, not only deprives people of the truth but also forces the Armenians to have to educate people about their genocide. The more "fake" history the Turkish government puts out the harder it is for people, around the world, to remember the American people's history.

The exchange between the Turkish government and St.John was more about covering up their history. They said that the Armenian genocide wasn't a genocide, and they compared it to the Holocaust because the Armenian people tried to revolt against the government so they were justified in murdering millions of them. This comparison is useless because when they could Jewish people tried to revolt against the Nazis.

What I would do in my response to the Turkish government is bring more evidence, because it is hard to dispute hard evidence. St. John asked more questions than trying to argue with them, but they didn't directly answer a single one of his questions. I believe the American people deserve reparations, mostly in the form of acknowledgment, and that is exactly what I would say to the Turkish government. No matter if they agree that it was a genocide or not, millions of Armenians were killed, and that is the story that deserves to be held. When discussing genocide people somethings like to focus on the ones causing the genocide, and while they are important. we should focus on telling the personal stories of the victims; spreading their story is the same as sharing the historical knowledge surrounding the genocide.

Post your response here.

Originally posted by soccermom1800 on February 09, 2023 13:17

I 100% agree with your 2nd paragraph. Our history seems to be so white-washed. It is so important to learn more about other nations in the world, rather than just focusing on North America, and it is also important to learn about more important poc figures in history.

These events are all unequivocally true, there is no denying that the genocide, displacement, and overall attempt to ethnically cleanse the Armenian people was carried out by the Ottoman-Turkish government. We have photo evidence, written evidence, and physical evidence. There are still areas in Turkey that have masses of bones ready to be collected with just the placement of the hand on the soil. There is nothing I doubt that these survivors say, they are risking their lives to tell their stories and to do anything but believe them is evil.

Real history can be determined by evidence, although there are many things in history people like to deny, discredit, or ignore. There are many parts of history that we have evidence of, and that we know happened. “Real” history is history that makes people feel better, the teaching U.S. history is a great example of this, a lot of it happened, but there is so much history ignored, and discredited due to white supremisit values that are so deeply ingrained in our society. It can be difficult to know when history is real sometimes, due to the way that “real” history can be presented. The best way to know what truly happened is to diversify your education, find everything you can on that topic and make sure that they line up, if they don’t something isn’t real.

Although I would like to say I’m surprised that the Turkish government is denying this, frankly, I’m not. Governments all over the world do things just to make themselves look better, and this is no exception, they refuse to believe they did anything wrong and will not let anyone see a weakness in them. To go back on their word now is to show a sign of not only holding a corrupt and inhumane past, but to give in, to become weak. Turkey is a very useful country for others to ally themselves with, and if they project a weak image that could ruin a lot of their reputation. At the end of the day, the government is putting themselves first, because even today, they truely do not care about the Armenian people, or the genocide that they created.

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I unequivocally believe that what the Turks did to the Armenians should be considered genocide by everyone. I also unequivocally believe that anyone that doesn’t consider this event a genocide is either uneducated or simply willfully ignorant. The official definition of genocide is the deliberate killing of a group of people with the aim of destroying that group of people. If that is not what happened to the Armenians, then what did? What other term would better describe the brutal massacre, forced deportation, starvation, and torture of the Armenian people? I think it is genuinely so disheartening that Biden was the first US president to actually officially recognize that this was a genocide. Trump himself recognized that “more than 1.5 million Armenians were ‘deported, massacred, or marched to their deaths’ under the rule of the Ottoman Empire” (CNN), but he still does not refer to this event as a genocide. After looking at the facts and pictures of this event, it becomes extremely clear that the Turks truly meant to wipe out the Armenians. This was not just a “people get hurt in war” type of situation, this was a deliberate, systematic killing. The fact that “the use of the word genocide is regarded as an insult to the Turkish nation” (CBS Report) and is a punishable offense is infuriating and just mindblowing, but I will get into the response of the Turkish government later. While there are still many people that doubt this event was even a genocide, the only thing that I doubt is the Turkish government’s explanation for this massacre. Apparently, they killed the Armenians to protect themselves and ensure national security against people they believed to be traitors. Although it is true that some Armenians did join the Russian Volunteer Corps (as stated in the documentary film), it is just plain wrong to use this as an excuse to accuse an entire group of people of being traitors. Thousands of Armenians were killed under the excuse of “quelling riots.” However, there is not nearly enough evidence of Armenians supporting the enemies of the Ottoman Empire to result in the cruel treatment that they received. It also says a lot that someone like Hitler even seemed inspired by the Armenian genocide; Even he is able to recognize the fact that shockingly enough, very few seemed to remember or acknowledge what happened to the Armenians. This brutal event was not an effort to “quell” rebellions, it was a deliberate effort by the Turkish government to kill and push out the Armenian population.

The best way to identify what is “real history” is to look at the evidence. In the case of the Armenian genocide, there is plenty of evidence that a deliberate killing was happening. After looking at the pictures and records of both survivors and those that tried to speak against the genocide, it becomes very clear that this should be considered “real history” (factual). An interesting fact that I found out during our class research was that the Allied powers’ warning to the Ottoman Empire in 1915 about their treatment of the Armenians contained the first official usage of the phrase “crimes against humanity” (the full phrase used was “crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization,” later on the report states that all members of the Ottoman government would be held personally responsible for these crimes). Inhumanity is a large part of our modern definition of genocide, and I think it’s an incredibly large piece of evidence that several governments came together to recognize that this event was literally a crime against humanity. Although these governments failed to take adequate action against the genocide, looking back on their reports of this is still incredibly useful to educating people today. Additionally, in a New York Times article posted in 1915, a passage is showcased in which the Armenian Relief Fund Committee asks for help while describing the events happening in the Ottoman Empire. In my opinion, one of the more powerful excerpts from this passage was this: “They are left without shelter, without food, and without clothing, depending only upon the morsels of bread which the Government will throw before them, a Government which is unable even to feed its own troops.” This quote speaks about the forced deportation of the Armenians, during which they are stripped of their belongings and forced out of their home. The last statement about how the Turks were unable to feed their own troops was also very powerful as it makes you really consider the lack of sympathy that the Armenians received from the Turkish government during their forced deportation (“morsels of bread which the Government will throw before them”). Lastly, I want to speak about the pictures that I saw while doing my research since they arguably played the biggest role in my feelings about these events. The Turkish government refuses to claim that this event was a genocide and that this cruel treatment was only to protect national security, but these photos say otherwise. Perhaps the most disturbing one I saw was in the Armenian National Archive Gallery. It was a picture of a young Armenian boy named Mousheghik. In the image, he was showing off his hands which had holes in them from being crucified. It’s difficult to see images of cruelty done towards anyone, but it’s a different feeling when it’s children. It really makes you wonder, how could anyone do this? How could one’s hate towards a group of people lead them to commit such a disgusting, hateful act? Seeing pictures of groups of people before reading the captions that state that they were all massacred after is just so upsetting.

Discussing these images goes into my next point, which is how I would respond to the Turkish government’s position on this event. After reading the response from the Turkish Embassy to St. John, it becomes obvious that the Turkish government still continues to refuse to admit that this event was a genocide. The excuse of protecting national security comes up again when the embassy states that “...moreover, it is a historic fact that the Ottoman Empire relocated many Ottoman Armenians who were in harm's way or who were siding with the Russian Empire. This was a step to ensure security.” The way that this response is worded to insinuate that deporting the Armenians was actually an effort to help them is so infuriating. It wasn’t just some casual move that resulted in a few casualties; Thousands, even millions died in a terrifying trek that forced them into deserts and harsh conditions in a purposeful attempt to kill them. The embassy even calls Morgenthau’s reports “wartime propaganda.” What? How is that propaganda? How could Morgenthau’s efforts to shed light on the reality of the treatment of the Armenians be considered propaganda? The way that the Turkish Embassy seems to just brush aside the multiple massacres and inhumane acts that were committed against the Armenians is insane to me. How could you look at images of starving children and still refuse to admit the horrific truth that this was genocide? It’s shameful, truly shameful. Watching the film and listening to the stories of survivors of this genocide as they recount the brutalities that occurred was shocking and sad. It’s absolutely terrible that their experiences constantly got brushed off by people that refused to admit that yes, this was a genocide. To end this post, I wanted to share a heartbreaking quote that Noyemzar Alexanian shared in her story: “A friendly Kurd later told my mother that my father begged to be shot, not butchered.” How is it that the stories of these people are only coming to light recently when this event happened a century ago?

Originally posted by lil breezy on February 09, 2023 17:40

The Armenian genocide 100% happened. The photos in the webquest should really persuade anyone. There was one specific photo that really stuck with me. It was an Armenian young boy, an orphan. (I also want to mention the amount of children that were labeled as orphans is insane, but it really proves just how merciless this genocide was) The picture only showed the chest up of the boy, but it was obvious he had been reduced down to bones. Starvation like that can really only happen in devastating cases such as genocide. But- what really stuck with me was his face. He looked so much older than he was. Yes this could be partially due to the starvation factor, but I think it has a whole lot to do with trauma. Obviously, the kind of trauma that came with this genocide is unimaginable, and it really does show on his face. These victims were in a constant state of terror because of the unthinkable crimes committed against them. I didn’t really question or doubt anything because I don’t really believe people would go through so much trouble to lie about such a devastating event.

Honestly, I used to just believe that everything I was taught in history classes was real, because there was no reason for a textbook to lie, but over the years I have realized that so much rich history is left behind, and the history that we are presented with is often sugar coated. I mean, for years children learned about the “great” adventures of Columbus and his “amazing” discovery, only to later find out he was a really horrible guy who unjustly stole land from Indigenous people. In the case of the Armenian genocide, I think it was clear that the Turks want to wipe out the Armenians. Within the chronology slideshow, it began with the stores, but even then you can tell there is an obvious divide, but this doesn’t automatically mean genocide, right? Well then the Armenian people begin getting accused. Then we see a slow descent of them losing their rights. They are moved, killed- the Turks basically did everything they could to get rid of this specific group of people, and that's what makes it real. The victims of this genocide speaking about it in the film also showed me how real this was. There was one woman who was talking about the time she was taken away from her mother, and had to watch many Armenians get their throats slit. Even though she didn't physically see her mother die, she knew her mother had been killed in the same manner. The brutality of this memory is bad enough, but the woman doesn’t seem too emotional while speaking. Some may argue this is because she is lying, but I think it is because she has become so desensitized to violence.

Honestly, I would have laughed at the response. It is just such a stupid way to try to divert from the problem. I am not sure if I would have emailed again to be honest, but I would definitely try to get their response out in the mainstream media, and try to get more people to talk about the genocide, which would hopefully in turn force the Turkish embassy to at least acknowledge the genocide.

I agree with your last paragraph about the response of the Turkish Embassy. It's such a stupid way to try and excuse what happened, and also just plain sad when you remember how many people suffered in this genocide just for the government to refuse to admit their wrongs. I also agree that getting this out to mainstream media to force an adequate response from the Turkish Embassy would be a great idea. This is an event that needs to be acknowledged.

Originally posted by soccermom1800 on February 09, 2023 13:17

These events are all unequivocally true, there is no denying that the genocide, displacement, and overall attempt to ethnically cleanse the Armenian people was carried out by the Ottoman-Turkish government. We have photo evidence, written evidence, and physical evidence. There are still areas in Turkey that have masses of bones ready to be collected with just the placement of the hand on the soil. There is nothing I doubt that these survivors say, they are risking their lives to tell their stories and to do anything but believe them is evil.

Real history can be determined by evidence, although there are many things in history people like to deny, discredit, or ignore. There are many parts of history that we have evidence of, and that we know happened. “Real” history is history that makes people feel better, the teaching U.S. history is a great example of this, a lot of it happened, but there is so much history ignored, and discredited due to white supremisit values that are so deeply ingrained in our society. It can be difficult to know when history is real sometimes, due to the way that “real” history can be presented. The best way to know what truly happened is to diversify your education, find everything you can on that topic and make sure that they line up, if they don’t something isn’t real.

Although I would like to say I’m surprised that the Turkish government is denying this, frankly, I’m not. Governments all over the world do things just to make themselves look better, and this is no exception, they refuse to believe they did anything wrong and will not let anyone see a weakness in them. To go back on their word now is to show a sign of not only holding a corrupt and inhumane past, but to give in, to become weak. Turkey is a very useful country for others to ally themselves with, and if they project a weak image that could ruin a lot of their reputation. At the end of the day, the government is putting themselves first, because even today, they truely do not care about the Armenian people, or the genocide that they created.

I really liked your explanation of the difference between real history and "real" history. It's a common trend amongst many people to just accept certain facts because it makes them feel better about themselves. The best comparison that I can come up with right now is the way so many people who honor the Confederacy in our country say that the Confederates were fighting for states' rights, even though we all know they were just fighting for states' rights to keep slavery. I also agreed with your last statement about diversifying one's education; It's always important to keep an open mind and be prepared to use multiple different sources to learn. It's not good to just stick to one side of the story because you like it better.