learntoquestion ltq discussions

When Schindler was telling Amon that it was powerful to be able to pardon people, I saw that scene as him trying to use Amon’s need for power to convince him to stop hurting the Jewish victims. At this point in the movie, he is slowly becoming more and more sympathetic towards the Jewish people. I believe that Schindler was also trying to tell Amon that cruelty is not a necessary action when trying to control others. To Schindler, having power over yourself and your own feelings is a much greater feat than allowing your anger to control your actions. Having the ability to “pardon” or forgive others is a demonstration of self restraint. Schindler is a man who loves money and gaining influence, and he often uses his charismatic personality to get his way (such as convincing Amon to hose the Jewish prisoners when in reality, he was just trying to give them water). Schindler’s view of power is based off of the respect of those around him, which he manipulates to get what he wants. Amon’s view of power is different because it centers around him doing whatever he wants using fear tactics, not respect. Amon showcases his power by constantly showing those around him that he can do as he wishes, including committing random killings. Schindler recognizes this and tries to change Amon’s perception of what power actually is. By telling Amon that being able to pardon others is a powerful characteristic, Schindler is able to save a couple of Jewish people from Amon’s wrath before Amon allowed his need for control to get the better of him again.

Honestly, I’m not so sure where I would draw the line since this is such a horrific situation. Anyone could argue that during such a terrible event, there is no line that cannot be crossed when trying to survive, which becomes especially true for those that are trying to protect other people such as family or children. However, me as a person, I think I wouldn’t be able to force myself to do anything that would endanger others around me, such as snitching on someone else to try and save my own life. But then you also have to take into consideration that many people had families to protect, which is a whole different mess because then it leads to another question: How far would you go to protect your loved ones? Judenrats are simply Jewish people that had to take these jobs to protect themselves, and I honestly think they should not be judged for it. The Holocaust was just such a horrible situation that it feels wrong for me, who obviously did not experience it first hand, to try and argue for a line that shouldn’t be crossed.

I think the main thing that caused Schindler to “change” and begin sympathizing much more with Jewish people (even as a member of the Nazi Party) was working with Itzhak and many other Jewish people to gain money in his factory. Itzhak basically ran his business for him and because of that, the two became close enough to almost treat each other as friends (though not quite, because the power imbalance still throws everything off until the end of the movie where Schindler breaks down and fully realizes that the victims of the Holocaust were also just human beings). Also, whenever Schindler is called a “good man” by any of the Jewish people, he grows visibly uncomfortable and often lashes out. I believe that this is due to his underlying feeling of guilt for taking advantage of the Jewish people as his time around them made him see them as actual people. I’d say that he finally decided to become an upstander because he realized that he had genuine influence that could be used to save the lives of these people. Witnessing all that death and cruelty forced him to act. As for the question of whether Schindler is a hero or not, I’m honestly not quite sure what to label him as. He’s rather interesting because his morals are all over the place, especially when it comes to women. I still don’t fully understand why he kissed that Jewish girl (Amon says that it’s because Schindler just likes beautiful women, but it’s Amon saying that so I’m not so sure). However, despite his flaws, I think it is still important to recognize his role in saving the lives of hundreds of Jewish people from the concentration camps. As a man that seemed obsessed with money at the start of the movie, I was incredibly surprised by the fact that he was using up all of his savings on maintaining the Jewish people of his factory (also, the factory was a “model of non-production,” which was also interesting since I thought he would have still made them work so he could still partially profit). His actions all began with his greed, but his recognition of the Jewish people as actual human beings was what pushed him to be an upstander in the end.

Questions for Rena Finder: What was your life like after the war, and how did you cope with all the trauma that came from it? Additionally, I think it would be very interesting to hear about your thoughts on the moral question: Was there a line that you swore to never cross?

Power can be ruled through many different ways. Based on Schindler’s morals initially of desiring a larger accumulation of money, I would think his idea of power is being able to get people to work for him and benefit people, and maybe that’s why he tried to coax Goeth to pardon people. However I think Geoth’s view of power is purely ruling on fear and control and I think that’s why he was so cruel and viewed Jews so easily expendable. It’s very difficult to answer this question because I wouldn’t be able to fathom being in that situation however I would like to say that I would draw the line at people being unnecessarily severely hurt, especially at senseless murder but I don’t know. I would definitely draw the line at hurting my loved ones but I don’t know otherwise. I think Schindler took the actions he took because although he was initially only in it for the money, he was able to realize the senseless cruelty occurring and he finally realized who the Jews were, human beings, not something beneath him. And so he leveraged the position he was in to become an upstander instead of being a bystander. He managed to do the right thing at the end but I’d hardly say he’s heroic due to the all the wrong he had done prior to it.

Question: Who did you lose in the war? How important were they to you? How were your relationships during the war with other Jews?

I've heard many things about this movie and considered my father, who is almost a specialist on the subject, the best movie portraying the holocaust, and had many hopes coming into this movie. Needless to say, my expectations were fulfilled and if not exceeded. The movie didn't hold back on the violence, and although I watched many WWII movies with my father, this one disturbed me in a way I haven't ever felt from a WWII movie, which is good to make people feel disgusted at these actions. Schindler's words to Goeth about what power really is was a scheme to make him stop killing as many Jews as he has, so there would be some bias. Goeth however thought that the best way was just intimidation. The most I would do is anything before killing someone, which is something I simply cannot fathom. If anything I would take a similar mindset to Schindler, helping people just under being detected. In my opinion, the movie can be split into three parts, one before the girl in the red coat, one after, and one after seeing her in a wheelbarrow. Before Schindler was living his best life by simply being unaware of what was happening, until he saw the girl, and he then began to start educating himself about what was really happening. Then his breaking point after the wheelbarrow, when he decided he couldn't be a bystander anymore and had to take action, which of course was the right thing to do. One more thing I would like to point out was the scene of "snow", and what Schindler realized was really ashes that the children were playing around in, which surprised me.

Question: Who's life could you relate to the most?

This was a very interesting scene. The amount of symbolism that Spielberg included makes the message spoken by the characters that much more powerful. To start off my point I want to make it clear that Schindler is a businessman. And business people know how to craft anything, an argument or contract in order to get what they want. Amon Goeth is simply a soldier in a meaningless war. And Schindler takes full advantage of his oblivion. Goeth starts off by saying essentially that power is only attainable through mercilessness, ruthlessness, and brutality. That these mindless killings instill an instinctual fear in people (Jewish people more specifically), and that from this fear, one (the Nazi’s) can draw power. Schindler is smart. He knows that he can’t risk Goeth not being a unknowing participant in his efforts to protect the Jewish community of his factories. If not Goeth, then who? Most likely a brute and unchanging Nazi who will disregard Schindler's business and authority. So — he recognizes the essentially of him convincing Goeth that power is the opposite of what he believes. Schindler says that “Power is when we have every justification to kill and we don’t.” Thus convincing, subconsciously, Goeth of his idea and manipulating him into Schindler's plan to protect the Jewish people.

The film depicts innumerable terrible events, placing people in desperate and horrific situations. Some people took on roles that saved their lives; others refused to do so. Still others avoided risk, while various individuals chose to take tremendous risks to save themselves and others. We see compliant workers in this film, black market smugglers, Jews turned “Judenrat”—a police force staffed by Jews but working for the Nazis within the ghetto that could move you from the “bad” line to the “good” line, etc. People crossed plenty of moral and ethical lines in the film. Where would you draw the line? What is the line that cannot be crossed? What action can you NOT take in order to save your own life?

I think that this is a tough question to answer in the sense that I’ve never been in a visible position where I’ve 1) needed to survive, or 2) had my survival predicated on my decisions regarding those around me. But the more I thought about the question, the more I realized that the things that keep me healthy and alive do in fact disadvantage others in this world. In fact, I’m sure that a good number of my daily decisions impact someone else everyday. Whether that be me wastefully standing under the running shower or using seven squares of toilet paper. I feel like I’m going off topic but what I’m meaning to say is that other than connecting this back to my carbon footprint I’ve come to realize that my actions do affect the lives of other people, even if unintentionally. I think that’s the dilemma represented in the movie. I’d like to believe that if it came down to it, my life over other’s lives would be an easy choice. As much as we seek self preservation I believe that I’m a pretty logical person and can see that others may be the correct choice. In order to save my own life, I wouldn’t juxtapose my own morals even if that meant that I would not survive.

What made Schindler take the actions he took? Why did he seem to “change”? Was he heroic? In other words, how and why did he shift from being a “bystander” to an “upstander”?

I think that Schindler's actions changed for a number of reasons. I think his proximity to the Jewish community due to them being his workers — his ability to see firsthand their mistreatment, was definitely a key factor. Especially when we saw the little girl wearing the red coat, I think movie wise, she symbolizes the most innocent of people being a little girl, but also the innocence, the unknowing, the oblivious even depiction of her, represented by her needless wandering and eventual hiding: it just went to show Schindler how meaningless and how evil the actions against the Jewish people were. As well as the disabled worker, I think Schindler having conversant and been thanked by him, a day before being executed speaks volumes about how human beings should be treated as, and are such

Side Note: I found an article about this and about the actor who played the little girl in the red coat who is actually currently helping Ukrainian refugees and if anyone makes it this far in reading my post I think the article is quite interesting.

https://deadline.com/2022/04/schindlers-list-little-girl-in-red-coat-ukraine-1234996770/

At the end of the post, in a separate paragraph, pose a question for Rena Finder. Know that I’ll be copying and pasting, combining similar questions/topics and getting her to respond.

I think my question is: How do you live, how do you reconcile and move past such an atrocity. Can you even? Should you even? How do you find a balance between ensuring that the history is recognized as well as remedied and protecting your own sanity and giving yourself the rest you deserve.