learntoquestion ltq discussions

What exactly are these “desirable traits”? Do they also consist of modified personality and mental health? Overall, I would say it results in an overall net positive outcome due to the decrease in diseases and medical limitations. It would be more positive if being a “faith baby” or genetically modified did not decide your life and career path for you. The immense stress and hardships Vincent had to go through just for the opportunity to succeed were insanely intense and simply showed the inequality faced if one is a “faith baby.” People may have been healthier and more robust, but obviously, as shown by Jerome's suicide, even being a valid genetically modified person does not bring automatic prosperity, showing that genetic modifications do not create perfection. It can be argued that genetic modification increases capabilities to deal with modern life challenges, but that mental success comes truly from a person within, and unless you can code in determination to someone, then, no, they do not make someone more capable of dealing with modern life challenges.

Personally, if I were to choose, I would rather be a genetically modified baby based solely on the difference in opportunities. Invalid people are seen as worth less than valid people, leading to heavy discrimination in school, jobs, and just daily life. Vincent faced so many challenges throughout his life as Jerome. He was so dedicated he even got surgery to gain two more inches of height to fit as Jerome. After all of these sacrifices, Vincent had to continue this fake identity for the ability to live out his dream of traveling to space. There is no way I would have been able to go as far as Vincent went in terms of his fake identity. The number of unexpected tests Vincent had to pass would have caught me off guard at some point, that’s if I had managed not to leave a single hair or trace of any kind at some point. Along with the greater opportunities available physically, I would not face many difficulties in the medical field as those negative possibilities were coded out. The hierarchy formed from the rise of eugenics and discrimination following genetic modification was heavily ethic based as the ability to get genetic modifications did not only come down to choice but was also an extremely expensive process making it unattainable for some. Although eugenics may bring a new form of discrimination, it is arguably worth the decrease of diseases, crime, etc.

(Sorry for this being late, I accidentally posted it to the wrong section)

If I were living in a society like the one in the movie, I would choose to be a baby whose genes have been modified, and I feel that parents who choose otherwise would be doing the child a disservice. The child would have a harder time doing the same things as everyone else and would be disadvantaged for its entire life just because of one choice they made. If the same choice were given to me in today’s world, I might choose to be a faith baby since I wouldn’t be at a disadvantage, but it’s different being in the movie’s society. Secondly, I think there may be benefits of genetically removing certain things, like susceptibility to cancer, heart disease, etc. I think people could be better able to handle modern day life without these and we would also see lower allocation of resources to these illnesses.

I don’t think I would have the daringness to go the lengths Vincent did, so I would probably just hope I'm “valid”. There were punishments if you an invalid, and the only reason Vincent didn’t get punished was because he had a brother in law enforcement, had the support of the doctor, and made a friend, Irene, who also had genetic defects. However, I understand why Vincent did what he did. He had a fascination with science as a kid, and being told by your own parents that the only way he could only see the inside of a rocket was to clean it must’ve really hurt.

Eugenics and the societal structure in the movie are similar in that they separate people based off of inherited traits, but they differ in that the structure in the movie is actually backed up by science. Although the dystopian society creates a miserable living experience for many people, there is tangible evidence to back up its cause, unlike in eugenics, where “scientists” made up claims that justified the lower position of certain racial groups. I think the movie shows discrimination really well. People being separated based on genotypic differences is pretty much the definition of racial discrimination.

The film brings up the question if discrimination could ever been used in a justifiable context. To be in space, the elite workers needed to be in very good shape and also couldn’t have any risk of heart disease, or else it may place both the mission or the astronauts at risk. This begs the question: under these circumstances, is it ok for their society to discriminate against certain people? I think people who believed eugenics probably wondered the same thing, although they were probably more willing to discriminate.

• If we ever reach the technological stage whereby, we have the ability to modify the genetic structure of a human embryo, this would be a pivotal moment in our species’ history. I not only believe that this is the next step of our growth and development as a species, but also a logical extension of our scientific progress. By developing such capabilities as we see in GATTACA (potentially being more efficient and effective than the type we see in the movie), generations of humans would be healthier, as harmful and inhibiting genetically inherited traits and diseases would largely be phased out of the population. Humans would be stronger and less predisposed to committing crimes. They would be better able to function in today’s society as their productivity and proclivity to survive and sustain themselves in today’s world would be greatly improved from our own. They would also be able to function in future societies. As the technology advances, improvements will likely be noticed, and maybe versions of our genetically altered species will be better adapted to function and operate in the microgravity of space, or on other planets. Humanity’s destiny lies in the stars. Exploration will likely not begin even within the far future but inevitably we will venture beyond the earth and moon. The exploration of other worlds was hinted at in the movie itself, with the main character Vincent having an aspiration to travel in space. (Which is something his biologically unfit self would find a great deal of difficulty to achieve, with his problematic heart condition). As humans continually push outwards into the stars, we will find it to be of great importance that we are better adapted to life on other worlds. The only efficient way to accomplish this is through genetic alteration. The only downside to this is our sociological proclivity to discriminate, victimize, and be prejudiced towards different people based on arbitrary factors. Differences between two sects of people has led to violence, war and death. In order for this advancement to be witnessed and appreciated as such, we must first conquer our inherent human mentality of discrimination and prejudice. This has the potential, if not efficiently quelled before this technology is developed, to lead to gargantuan calamities, or at the very least a war. Whilst global conflict was not explored in the film, discrimination becomes a societal fixture in the world of GATTACA. The movie is a warning and a glimpse into a society whereby our tendencies to discriminate against one another haven’t been efficiently quelled, and thus this technology has become one big fuel to light the world ablaze in rampant discrimination against the genetically modified and the non-genetically modified.

• If I was alive in such a world, I would prefer to be a genetically altered baby, a “valid” as opposed to a “in-valid”. I would want the best for myself, and unfortunately within this hyper-discriminatory world, that seems like the class that is most favorably looked upon by society. Vincent, as clearly shown in the movie, has to navigate through constant hurdles, sacrifice his own identity and borrow one of the vices just to achieve his goals. The risks supersede the benefits of preserving one’s own self, and even then; if you're genetically modified, you are still 100% yourself just the improved parts, the hindrances and the diseases and the damaging effects removed.

• As previously mentioned, not only does the films plot link heavily to discrimination and especially eugenics, but the technology in it of itself can be linked to these two damaging fixtures of 20th century human sociology. Eugenics is the false science of how to choreograph reproduction within a population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as “desirable”. This directly ties in with the plot of the movie, as the movie is set in a society that, through incredible advancement in genetic alteration and engineering, removes the traits considered to be undesirable by society. The plot of this movie, however, was how Vincent managed, through various workarounds and a meticulous planning and methodology, to circumvent these boundaries and achieve his goal of going into space. Eugenics and this science, at face value, seem intrinsically linked. Both seek to modify humanity to a more desirable form. The main separation between this science and eugenics is, in my view, how eugenics' primary role in society has been as a method used to discriminate against others. This technology has the potential to drastically improve human life. As stated before though, we must remove our human tendency to discriminate against one another, a colossal yet achievable undertaking, in order for this development to be fully appreciated and the outcomes of which to be beneficial for humanity, not harmful.

Theoretically, if we were able to manipulate genes, humans would be healthier and be able to live better lives. However, if society is ever able to achieve this, it also brings an inevitable problem. Whether this problem takes the form of what happens in Gattaca where non-modified people are shunned or whether, for example, it’s made illegal to have un-modified children, thus eliminating the freedom of choice, it would greatly harm society.

In Gattaca, there is also the issue of equating perfect genes with a perfect person. Jerome was told he was supposed to be perfect because his genes were perfect, but when he won second place, he tried to commit suicide because he wasn’t the best. In a way, I understand how he felt. I am constantly told I am supposed to be smart because of my race and when I am not, people are often shocked or disappointed.

Even though “valids” like Jerome suffer under the burden of perfection, which ultimately killed him, I think whether it’s better to be “valid” or “in-valid” really varies person to person, depending on the way each person views life and how they would weigh the pros and cons. If I were alive in the world of Gattaca, I would definitely prefer to be a baby whose genes had been modified. There wasn’t much difference between “valids” and “in-valids” besides the way they were treated by society. The discrimination that Vincent faced because of him being a faith baby was immense. He was relegated to being a janitor his whole life and told that he would never be capable of being anything. His own family never believed in him. However, he was able to prove that he was just as and even more capable than some “valids” through his hard work and persistence. He beat his brother in two swimming competitions because he pushed himself further than his brother likely ever did or needed to. Vincent was able to achieve his dreams because he never quit and he never stopped believing in himself. For anyone else with even slightly less determination, it would be next to impossible to do what he did.

I think if I was an “in-valid”, I personally would not be able to do any of what Vincent did. He put his life on the line daily and had to work so much harder than everyone else. He was forced to pretend to be someone he wasn’t and he had to get height surgery just to pass.

Vincent was also incredibly brave. He lived in fear everyday that someone would find out about his secret and had to go to great lengths to protect himself. He ran across a road with cars rushing past so that Irene wouldn’t find out about him being “in-valid” despite the fact that he could barely see, whereas I think I would’ve chickened out and made some excuse to not go.

As proved by the movie, eugenics cannot exist without discrimination. Vincent, who was just as good a person as anyone else considered to be “valid,” was never given a chance because of his genes. Even though most people were “valid,” the few that weren’t, were not allowed to pursue anything with their lives, constantly told they would be incapable. Even “valids” who weren't valid enough, like Irene, who had a higher risk of heart failure, weren’t able to do everything they wanted to. She was allowed to work at Gattaca, but barred from actually going to space. This movie also really emphasizes the idea that genetics don’t mean everything and they cannot tell you everything about a person. After all, Donald Trump, who claims to have great genes, is not known for being a great person.

I do think genetic research can greatly benefit society. Gene therapy can be used to help treat or prevent harmful diseases like cancer. However, I think if we try to apply gene-editing to all humans for every single gene or reproduction, that’s where the ethics gets a little hazy and we should proceed with caution.

I find this first question difficult, because its a battle between advantage and morals. While the idea of being able to choose a baby’s genes seems morally unethical, being able to have a guaranteed better life could outway the cons. Ultimately, I wonder how far would these modifications go? Mental modifications even? I personally think I would choose to be genetically modified, simply because of the problem where if later in life I had a physical issue that could have been prevented, I would have regrets. Ultamitely, I would want to make the choice that would leave me with no regrets. Which one that is, I do not know. Digging deeper, there would be the goal of being the perfect child, which would have only negative consequences. Considering that there truly is no such thing as the perfect human, we would be striving to fulfill an unachievable prophecy. On another note, I think my personal flaws are what make me human. If I were a nearly (or simply) perfect person, all of my flaws and imperfections that make me me would be nonexistent, and that seems like a rather boring existence. After all, Vincent’s life as “in-valid” was one still filled with thrill and enjoyment. He seems to be doing just fine, even with his “in-valid” state. On my final note, being modified would prevent me with facing challenges simply for the way I exist. As a minority in our modern day world, I know that my life would be much easier if my identity was simply…different. If I had the choice to eliminate those challenges in this world without changing aspects of who I am, I would take it in a heartbeat.

This film relates to eugenics and the idea that there are more genetically fit people than others. Ultimately, eugenics is absolutely bogus, so I can contrast it from this world where the genetically modified children are backed by science. It is also similar to eugenics because valids and non-valids mirror the minorities of our modern day world. The fact that people in the film are discriminated against simply for the way they exist seems awfully familiar…Luckily, this film paints ideas like eugenics in a bad light. Gattaca also highlights the flaws within an idea of a perfect society. The ideas within the film portray how a life where everyone was “perfect” yet the “same” would lead to a boring existence-

I believe that yes, there may be a slightly positive result for society if we were able to control the genes to create what we would consider good, however each person has their own perception of good. There may be a standard of good such as a lack of diseases, no type of physical ailments and such, however, some people may embrace things that others may not. A preference for blue eyes over brown or darker hair over lighter colors. I think that the movie showing how the genetic selection worked allow me to better craft my answer. People were working with doctors, scientists and all for a likely high cost. With this, less fortunate families will probably have a likelihood of not being able to afford this. I also noticed how majority of the cast was in fact white, which made me think of two things. One. Would having lighter skin color be seen as desirable even in this society? And two. Would this division between people of color and white people create an even harder society for people of color to suceed?

In one of the interview moments in the movie, the main character, Vincent, was shocked at the interview process in how quick it was. Simply giving them a sample. I feel like this paralleled with how job interviews are with people. It is easy to say that white people have a much easier time at getting a job over a person of color, from sterotype or systemic racism of the white person going to a better school or other examples as such. The parallel here is that just as a white person would have an easier time getting a job, a valid person would as well. I think that people would be healthier, stronger, and likely live longer lives, but thats just for the people who can afford these processes or even get into good areas where they have the opportunity.

As the majority of people have mentioned, I would rather live being genetically modified. Escaping hardships might just be the better choice, but that doesn’t mean I have to think like anyone else. If I were to assign a role to myself in the movie, I would most likely be a genetically modified person who is looked down upon for helping those as invalid, where the audience likes me but those in the movie don’t. I think that even the names “valid” or “invalid” also conveys a strong message. Based on things you can’t control, you’re seen as less than. In these types of society, if an invalid child learned that their parents had the opportunity to give them a life without hate or valid-ism (given that the parents had no financial issues and such), the child would ultimately resent their parents. I also wouldn’t go to the lengths Vincent did. I feel that knowing myself, if I were to be invalid, I wouldn’t go out of my way to ‘become’ valid. Given my thoughts on the lack of valid people of color, I would probably not stand a chance. I think that using another person’s identity would just cause a crisis. Mental health issues would skyrocket for those who used people like Jerome. He went to great lengths to be seen as perfect, as many people do now which causes my point to mental health. To conclude this answer, society would crumble. As I mentioned, yes there would be literal benefits for people seen as valid but the issues for everyone else would be severe. Death rates for invalids would rise (most likely) in countries with more valid than invalid people, and then eventually by seeing this information, more and more people would try their best to genetically modify their child. Countries with mainly invalid people would see those with mainly valid people and be envious which could cause issues for the invalids there as well as the country they envy.

I think that if we were able to manipulate or give preference to certain genes I would say for the most part it could benefit society. To this, I think about how society greeves so often due to one’s death. If genes that point to hereditary diseases were eliminated within society, I think in this aspect this preference would be a benefit. This would help people become healthier and stronger, however, I believe this doesn’t have much correlation with fewer criminals or the capabilities to problem solve, as these two situations are affected by more factors than just genes.

If I was alive in this society, I would probably want to have my genes genetically modified. Although I think it’s super iffy to deal with genetic modification, I think of how much easier life would be if I was just the “perfect child”. “Faith babies” are discriminated against before they even remember their own life. Take Vincent’s birth for example. With the technology of this society, it was so easy to tell whether or not a child was going to be “fit” for their lifetime, for Vincent’s situation this was not the case. He experienced discrimination right away, knowing that he wasn’t going to be healthy enough, he couldn’t even earn the honor of being named after his father. In fact, it was Vincent’s brother, who was conceived via IVF among other methods and had perfect genes, who received this honor. I personally wouldn’t roll the dice in this situation, also because I know I don’t have the best 50/50 luck. I wouldn’t want to take the risks that Vincent took to through taking one’s identity in the fear of being caught. As I watched the movie for the first time, I became super anxious knowing that Vincent’s eyelash was found, and I knew if this was me, I wouldn’t fair well in this situation.

I think this film perfectly reveals the views that society once had, but still do, surrounding eugenics. How there’s the idea that only the fittest would be chosen is still prevalent. This film brings up some of the very situations in how our society still judges people. Although feeblemindedness is no longer a construct that I hear about a lot, in this society, we still judge people for not being able-bodied or for having cognitive impairments. For those who do experience discrimination, their experiences are everlasting, and it essentially requires them to put on a mask just to be able to fit into society. This is exactly like Vincent’s experience fitting in using Jerome’s identity.

In theory I believe that it would have a positive impact on society, however in practice it would be detrimental. It would raise the stress of beauty standards and ultimately be the worst possible thing for society. Also it would be almost impossible to modify the entire world’s genetics. We have to think biologically about mutations and diversities in the human genome.

I would probably want to be a faith baby because being genetically superior kind of sounds boring. Also there is not really such thing as “genetically superior” due to personal taste. I would roll the die byt I wouldn’t really care about being invalid. I don’t think I would care enough to use someone else’s identity, but like vincent I wouldn’t go along with the idea of being lesser than. In this case I would be like him and reject the idea of society’s hatred for genetic disposition.

This movie definitely touches on the problems of discrimination in society. We as humans are meant to be presented as a certain image, and once you step out of that image you are caste to the side. It depicts the injustice that people face every day by feeling “genetically inferior”. The movie itself serves as a warning to society to reject societal norms of genetic superiority.

Vincent’s character showcased the lengths that the company was willing to go in order to keep their discriminatory demeanor towards “invalid” people. They broke the law in order to keep their own prejudice intact. This is seen in our culture as well with people of color, women, people in the LGBTQ+ community, and more. Eugenics was used to promote prejudicial norms in our society, and the negative effects of genetic bias.