learntoquestion ltq discussions

• Did the ends (desegregating the Boston public schools) justify the means (busing)?

I would say both yes and no. Desegregating BPS was and is a very important and good idea. Busing of course had its pros and its cons. The students at the Holmes school had gone from majority one race schools to schools that were mixed. They expressed their support, saying that they had been nervous but that there was not a lot, if any, fighting at their school and that everyone got along for the most part. Obviously this wasn’t the case everywhere and everyone knew that. In some places things were incredibly violent and created temporary sundown towns at times. I think providing better resources for everyone was a good idea, and desegregation is obviously good, but that FORCED busing was not ideal. Obviously there are going to be some people that have a problem no matter what, but maybe the city should have provided and opened the means of transportation without forcing kids to use that transportation. Maybe they should have given some sort of encouragement or reward for sending kids across the city for the first year or two? If anyone had the solution I'm sure the problems that existed wouldn't have been so bad, and now almost 50 years later we still don’t know all the answers. More communication and cooperation always helps.

• Was desegregation a worthy goal or not?

Desegregation is of course a worthy goal. Segregation leads to nothing good. It leads to misinformation and lack of knowledge and empathy for other people. It leads to less educated people of color and worse resources for them. It creates an endless cycle of people of color statistically getting worse treatment and having worse lives which leads to the people in charge justifying the worse treatment using the worse lives as evidence. There is no such thing as separate but equal, as we have seen. I don't think any of us have friends exclusively within our own race, so how could any of us support segregation?

• Did change need to happen in the Boston Public Schools or were there other solutions to the remedy prescribed by Judge W. Arthur Garrity?

I think change needed to happen. Like I said before, although many bad things did happen it was so necessary that the black kids in the poorer schools got the resources they needed. One of the people in the documentary we watched was shocked to find out that the majority of black students could not spell or write a sentence in proper grammar. Anyone with eyes and a brain living in Boston will tell you our city is still not as diverse as it could be. And it's no secret that communities of color, especially here, tend to have a lower average income and are considered poor. This is purposeful and the result of decades and decades of inequality. Almost everything a student knows is taught in school. BLS students especially know the importance of a good education to get into the colleges and careers you want. Also like I mentioned maybe FORCED busing was not ideal but busing in general doesn’t need to be a bad thing. Providing resources and incentive may have solved the issue in a more peaceful way. Then again the forced busing wasn’t really the problem either but the reaction to it. The reason parents were scared to send their kids across the city was because they were scared someone would hurt their children. If people, namely white people, didn’t react so negatively, the children being hurt wouldn’t have been a problem!

• Can you imagine going to school in the environment of 1974-1975? What would have been tolerable? What would have been intolerable?

I’ve always gone to pretty diverse schools. I can’t imagine having started school with a mostly one race class and suddenly the class being very diverse. Or leaving all my friends to go to a strange new school. I think I would have been nervous but accepting. Making new friends, getting used to a new area, the long commute which I already have now, and of course a diverse environment which I also already have now would have been tolerable. Intolerable would have been the fights, violence, and racism going on. Boston can already be so bigoted, it would be terrible to go to school during an even worse time. I also can’t imagine dealing with my family I think that would be my least favorite part on a personal level. I know I would have pretty much the exact opposite opinion as them.

• What do you see as the most visible effects today of the desegregation era of 1974-1975?

Our neighborhoods and schools are still pretty dominated by mostly one race. It's better now than it was but it's still like that in a lot of areas. However one article said that BPS went from being almost 60% white to only 14% white and a lot more diverse which is great! Also, classrooms are a lot more diverse now and we see that in action every day.

• Private schools, pricing and their lack of diversity in the student body
• Schools with more black and poc students have significantly less funding, and have unreliable staff and teachers( my old school, with a majority black and Hispanic population, got our language department cut, we lost so many teachers, our art department almost got cut, and it doesn't even provide the curriculum needed to prepare students for a test like the ISEE, MCAS, or the curriculum for going to another school like BLS)

Did the ends (desegregating the Boston public schools) justify the means (busing)?

• Although many would widely consider busing unsuccessful, there is a reason why the Supreme Court believed it needed to be implemented. Busing placed many young children in dangerous situations, but it seemed to be a last resort as the School Committee refused to fund predominantly Black schools as much as their white schools. With the greatest goal in mind to desegregate public education, something needed to be done through any means necessary

Was desegregation a worthy goal or not?

• No matter how someone feels about busing, desegregation in any institution is necessary. Segregation is racist and the idea of “separate but equal” is a lie. Desegregation is not interchangeable with equality, but it must be achieved to overcome inequality

Did change need to happen in the Boston Public Schools or were there other solutions to the remedy prescribed by Judge W. Arthur Garrity?

• Change definitely needed to happen. As I said earlier, Garrity’s ruling seemed like a last resort solution because black parents had gone to the School Committee multiple times before taking them to court. Though I am sure Garrity could’ve created a better solution rather than insert young children in dangerous positions

Can you imagine going to school in the environment of 1974-1975? What would have been tolerable? What would have been intolerable?

• I cannot imagine the school environment at that time because of its divisiveness and physical violence. Even though racism is prevalent in schools today and students tend to separate themselves by race, it is quieter and behind the scenes, while black nd white students would get into 10-15 fights daily. Even on the commute, young children were very scared of grown adults throwing hard objects with the intent to harm them. It would have been intolerable to have to commute >1 hour just to get to school every morning while there’d be a school down the street.

What do you see as the most visible effects today of the desegregation era of 1974-1975?

• Although there is clearly more diversity in schools today compared to the 70s, I’d argue that schools are still pretty segregated within themselves and between other schools. It has to be known that desgragating education is only a portion of a larger issue. Residency is still segregated, which is why schools are still segregated. And within the schools, BLS for example, kids entering the schools will usually stick with other kids that look like them or are from their towns.

Another thing I'd like to point out that Bosotn/MA residents as a whole like to pride themselves on being one of the most educated states, but do not consider who is getting the education

1. Desegregating bps was the right choice. It was a hard first step towards a more diverse school district as it resulted in putting students of color in danger. The buses that would take these kids to schools would be attacked by liberals who didn't want their children to go to the same school as black students. You would see buses getting eggs thrown at them and with broken windows, it got so bad police men would have to escort some buses just to ensure their safety.

2. Desegregation is definitely a worthy goal. "Separate but equal" worked as a loophole and does not exist, those two words literally contradict each other. To put this more into perspective, the “separate but equal” doctrine allowed the US government to keep in place the Jim Crow laws (in place from 1877-1950) despite the fourteenth amendment. Boston had the right idea to desegregate but should've come up with better solutions to make the transition easier for all.

3. A change needed to be made, it was absolutely necessary for the Public Schools in Boston. All students should have the equal opportunity to a good education regardless of their race. Like I said before, it was rough for these students and their families to be able to be so vulnerable, it isn't a fair fight but it was one that needed to be fought for equity.

4. I couldn't imagine how scary and nerve wracking it must have been for the students to have to go into a completely new environment where people were protesting for them to leave. The way they were treated, nothing seemed tolerable. The amount of violence and stress these students experienced and might have felt is just unimaginable.

5. The most visible effects of the desegregation era of 1974-1975 I would say is the diversity within Boston Public Schools today which is represented by the percentages of race in different schools. At BLS specifically, after the removal of the ISEE, there have been more students being accepted that are black or of color compared to when the exam was still in place.

1. I can see busing as a necessary means that promotes desegregation in Boston public schools but to say busing is justifiable because of such ends is debatable. Busing seemed to be a turning point for a lot of students and parents. As we saw in the videos in class, violence became a commonality in everyday life and children going to these schools in white neighborhoods constantly had people throwing rocks and other objects. During this time there were a lot of unjustifiable actions and beliefs that were ingrained. In the article “Did busing slow Boston’s desegregation?” a rise of racism and hatred occurred after busing became a reality. Students like Junior experience violence from people they used to be friends with, and this impacted him for the rest of his life. Although there were a lot of radical opinions and actions being thrown around during this time, busing played a vital role in promoting integration between the black and white communities and created a way for the city to confront its opposition towards each other.

2. Desegregation is a worthy goal because it allows people to confront other identities and educate themselves on the humanity of others. Batson, a black mother, fought for integration and went up against the power structure within Boston. She acknowledged how being integrated was vital for the education system and helped kids be raised to be more accepting. Communities are often divided by race and identity within a city, and this allows for poc communities to be disproportionately impacted by poor conditions, especially in the school system. Integration can provide better educational opportunities and environments for more students of color.

3. I think change needed to happen in Boston Public schools especially because it involved the education of kids. Even though busing and integration were new for families in the 70s, it was vital for encouraging change and striving for a more equitable system.

4. I could not imagine going to school in the environment of 1974-1975 because it is so difficult to wrap my head around how racist Boston really was. I would not know how to react to all the violence. Many of these students of color struggled with this treatment and in turn, had a really hard time overall. In “Echoes of Boston’s Busing Crisis” some black students often doubted themselves and seemed to have little hope of achieving academic success.

5. I think in today’s world, schools are still very divided. Schools in low-income areas lack funding which continues to target families of color. After busing many white families moved to the suburbs as well, and in MA we can see how they attain more funding and a chance to have better-developed schools.

Did the ends (desegregating the Boston public schools) justify the means (busing)?

The end justifies the means, however that is not to say that forced busing was the best option. The lengthy and laborious process of desegregation had to start somewhere. The busing issue itself was representative of a much deeper national issue; the internalized and underlying discrimination throughout Boston’s white community and other Northern communities. In the Atlantic article, “The Lasting Legacy of the Boston Busing Crisis,” author Michael Delmont details how opposing busing was a move by white communities “that obscured the histories of racial discrimination and legal contexts for desegregation orders.” Discrimination in the North was harder to pin-point so without taking action and enforcing busing in Boston Public Schools, when would the nation realize the amount of concealed racism that persisted in Northern institutions and legislations? The battle of busing and desegregation helped to uncover the disturbingly intense racism and hatred that existed nationwide. It also showed communities of color that the fight for equality was far from over.

Was desegregation a worthy goal or not?

Desegregation was 100% a worthy goal. Children are significantly more impressionable and more open minded when it comes to social constructs like race. By implementing practices that allow for children to be exposed to a range of backgrounds and identities, it enables them to grow up as more accepting individuals. Despite the numerous benefits of a diverse classroom, the dream of a desegregated school system was more than just a mixed classroom. Delmont explains that, Americans’ understanding of school desegregation in the North is skewed” and fails to address a plethora of discriminatory practices beyond segregated school systems including “housing covenants, federal mortgage redlining, public-housing segregation, white homeowners associations, and discriminatory real-estate practices.” These practices “produced and maintained segregated neighborhoods, as well as the policies regarding school siting, districting, and student transfers that produced and maintained segregated schools.” Desegregation involves equality beyond school and is a crucial step in ensuring that the United States is a land of freedom, justice, and equality---as it claims to be---for all its citizens.

Did change need to happen in the Boston Public Schools or were there other solutions to the remedy prescribed by Judge W. Arthur Garrity?

Change needed to happen in many Northern neighborhoods, not just Boston Public Schools. With that being said, there could have been safer and more effective alternatives. My biggest issue with Judge Garrity's decision was that black and white children were in danger everyday for attending school---a basic human right. I wonder if the transition could have begun by improving school conditions and allotting the necessary resources. This includes distributing more qualified and experienced staff and teachers in underfunded districts and classrooms. Michael Patrick MacDonald from the article, “Whitey Bulger, Boston Busing, and Southie’s Lost Generation,” adds that “National news…[focuses] only on the scenes of inexcusable racist violence, without examining any of the equally important class manipulation at play.” Judge Garrity’s decision sent “African American students into a school that, in spite of its predominant complexion, was as bad if not worse than the one they came from. The solution involved more than just joining two schools but addressing the corrupt and imprecise distribution of funds and resources to BPS districts. Especially to the civil rights leaders and advocates, properly funded schools dicated the future of their kids. The fight for black parents was about seeing their kids with the same opportunities as their white counterparts. It was about being on an equal playing field that provided them with the same jobs, the same resources, and the same financial security.

Can you imagine going to school in the environment of 1974-1975? What would have been tolerable? What would have been intolerable?

I would be absolutely terrified as my parents greatly value education so I doubt they would have pulled me out of school. After reading the account of several students who participated in the busing from the article, “History Rolled in on a Yellow School Bus,” I think the bus ride to and from school would be nearly intolerable. I can not imagine the amount of anxiety and fear the children had to endure daily. Nevertheless, some individuals like Aileen Dunner “who grew up in an integrated neighborhood…felt no trepidation…no racial tension.” Her experience with “no protesters, no bitter confrontations, and no heavy police presence,” would have been drastically more tolerable.

What do you see as the most visible effects today of the desegregation era of 1974-1975?