learntoquestion ltq discussions

I think that the desegregation and integration of Boston Public Schools was a very important thing, however the busing and the way it was handled was not done very well and in the most productive way. The main issue with it in my opinion is the endangering of students, especially young kids, well being. In one of the videos we watched one woman that spoke brought up a very good point that these kids can't fight back and defend themselves against the violence ensuing at these schools. Though this does not in any way unjustify the importance of the desegregation of these schools even more importantly at this time in the 70s. All the students in the city deserved an equal education and it was a very crucial cause and an undoubtedly worthy goal. I believe that it was the change that needed to happen though I think the busing could have been handled better but I think the rules set forth by Judge Garrity were what needed to happen.

I cant imagine being at school in the environment of 1974-75 because it is a completely different time. As we now veiw ourselves and open minded and accepting and self reflecting people would we not be this way if we were here at that time. Would we have a different attitude to the situation if it was then, than if it was to happen now. We don't know the answer to this question but I think the blatent violence and hatered shown towards the black students would have been very intolerable and horrible to be around. I see that there is progresively more diversity in schools which is a positive. However there are still schools that are predominantly one race or another and certain areas of a city that are populated more by one race or another which is always a reflection on the history of the city and of race.

Originally posted by poptarts on October 24, 2021 21:29

I think that the desegregation of schools is an extremely worthy goal and I’m glad it happened, but the way it happened could have gone much smoother and overall better. If there had been even the slightest bit of compliance from the school board or white families I think it would have been better, but because it was so heavily opposed and because judge Garrity made it mandatory with no room to argue it went south.

Going to school during that time would have definitely been terrifying because I am a person of color and I feel like the rising levels of violence both in schools and out of schools would scare me. As mentioned in Farah Stockman’s article “Did Bussing Slow Down Boston’s Desegregation?” many black families were horrified that the neighbors who they had healthy and friendly relationships with were the ones who were throwing things through their windows and lighting their things on fire. It’s the things like these that would have been terrifying for me to experience.

There still are visible effects today of the desegregation era, and those are less white children in BPS schools and a lot of the schools that are predominantly poc have less access to materials and don’t have as many commodities as other schools do. However, our schools are still pretty diverse compared to other places in the country.

I definately agree with your point about how the whole process could have been a lot smoother, and how even a but of compliance would have helped a lot in this situation.

Busing as a means for desegregation of the Boston Public schools, was not one bumpy year for students, but also worsened the strict and racist divides already present in the city. Desegregation is a clear and productive goal, the issue comes to achieving in a town where neighborhoods are divided so strictly by race. By busing high school students to Southie high, Black children were not even more likely to receive a better education by stepping onto a bus that was likely to be stoned and destroyed. Michael McDonald, a Southie resident, recounted just how inadequate Southie schools really were; that they were receiving even less funding than the predominately Black Roxbury schools. Southie high had the lowest attendance rate--jsut over 50%--after the busing began. I found McDonald's article the most intrguing out of the ones I read because previously the opposition to busing had seemed like the clear "wrong answer", or at least a racist one. However, as he explained, it was clear that there was so much more. So often, especially in the movie we watched in class, messages written in opposition with busing were often followed with a string of blatant racism.

Because of this, if I were alive in 1974, I most likely would have supported busing. From the outside, or, perhaps, from the rich schools of Wellesly, it seems like a great step towards the acceptance that Boston had been pleading for for decades. However, that effort was not nearly enough to even begin to disect this town's racism.

Going to school during this time period would have been incredibly difficult. I cannot imagine the feeling of showing up to school, surrounded by hoards of adults with the media, government, police, and military. Even worse than this I cannot imagine the fear as a young African American student having bricks, rocks, and racial slurs hurled at you because the government changed where you go to school. The story of the bus driver in the first article really helped me understand what kind of environment these children were going to school in. How were children supposed to learn anything in this environment?

Originally posted by goldshark567 on October 24, 2021 21:05

I think that desegregation was 100% a worthy goal. Having children of all races go to school together and have the same educational access and opportunities was needed and still is needed. Change definitely needed to happen in the Boston Public Schools because there were clear disparities between predominantly white schools and predominantly black schools. White schools had more money, resources, better teachers, etc. So, it was crucial that something was done in Boston to change this. However, I do not think that busing students between Roxbury and South Boston was an effective way of doing so.

The issue was that there was so much resistance to the busing. Students who were bused faced so much hatred and violence, while the city of Boston was becoming more divided, rather than unified. Michael Patrick McDonald discusses how Whitey Bulger used busing as a tool because it helped unite the white people in South Boston by pitting them against black people as a collective.

I can’t imagine going to school in the environment of 1974-1975. Students were put in very hostile environments, which was traumatizing. Children who were once friends found themselves surrounded by people who pointed to white and black people being enemies by default. In Farah Stockman’s Boston Globe article, they describe Robert Lewis Jr.’s story of a childhood friend who firebombed his house, one of many violent acts done to houses of black families in his neighborhood once busing began. His family, among many others, was forced out of neighborhoods that were more diverse and moved to majority black neighborhoods where they felt safer.

Today, Boston’s neighborhoods and schools are still largely segregated, if not more so than they were before the 1970s. There was so much pain caused by the busing era and seemingly few payoffs. Almost 50 years later, BPS is still struggling to integrate its schools. It’s interesting to think about what Boston would look like today if Judge W. Arthur Garrity had not ordered the busing to take place. Would the city be less divided than it is now?

I definitely agree with that last part. As a result of busing and redlining, we can still see the disparities and problems within our school systems, and the city's struggles making them more equal. That question at the end is also a very interesting one, especially asking it 50 years later. Would the schools have desegregated themselves? I would say probably not. But I do also wonder what the city of Boston would look if Garrity did not order busing.

In my opinion, I feel like I will never be informed enough to confidently say if the ends justified the means. When it comes to the topic of busing, I feel like there's always two sides of the coin. One positive thing has a negative thing behind it. I can't help but think "Hey busing led to the desegregation of schools, and I am now able to go to school with people who don't look like me!... but the racial demographics are still not great and there are many schools that remain majority white or majority black." or "Busing was great because it led to people changing the way they think and seeing each other as equal, but from busing emerged a massive force of hate that still lingers today." The efforts to desegregate schools was very much needed and very significant, yet the residual hate from the anti-busing rallies, or from people who just couldn't see the change still lingers today. Desegregation was a worthy goal, and a very important goal for that matter, but its a goal that we are still working towards everyday.

Despite anyone's opinion on busing, it can be said, without a doubt, that change NEEDED to happen in the BPS system. End of discussion. Segregated schools were a plague that kept children divided and disadvantaged. What can be open to discussion is what could have been done instead. Was busing the best option? Probably not. All decisions made will always have its controversies, backlash, and imperfections but I believe that busing was Judge Garrity working with what he had.

I could NEVER, in a million years, imagine going to school at this time. I grew up in a very ethnically diverse community and have been involved and exposed to many different communities. I am always proud to say that I have friends of many different colors, and the thought of not being able to form those bonds scares me. Despite anyone's opinions on busing, the progress that we have made since then to desegregate schools has been massive, and I will eternally be thankful that I was born in this generation. The fear that many students had back then during this time is astronomical. The hate that follows them as they grow older is terrifying. I really liked all of the articles that I read, but the article that stuck out the most for me was Stockman's "Did busing slow Boston’s desegregation?" Junior shared his experiences with having his own friend set his property on fire. This experience stayed with him for many years, always wondering what he'd say to his friend if he met him again, and when he did, he just hugged him. I could never imagine having that much compassion or forgiveness in my heart, and that's the fact of the matter. The way I would've responded was angrily and with hate. This hatred still lingers amongst the older generation (and it trickles down to the younger generation). Desegregation still haunts us today, as it is seen in our schools that are predominantly one race or another. The schools that tend to be predominantly white remain as the most privileged and well off schools, and the latter remain as the poorer schools. Despite that, we still have made significant improvements.

Desegregation was definitely a worthy goal, and is still something we're working towards even today. I don't think busing was the best way, but it may have been the only real way that it would have happened urgently. The trauma which was caused by the integration of the schools should be downplayed, in fact, the opposite should probably happen— after all, many of the people who where children are still alive today, and likely still do not know both sides of the story. Although tremendous harm was done why the busing movement and especially the widespread violence and racism were dangerous, it's still important I think to make the best of what has already happened. We can't turn back the clock, but we definitely can still spread the information and tell people about both sides of the story.

I think that at that point in time, there were not many other obvious solutions. After all, change had to happen, but forced busing was probably not the best idea. Although we can talk about politicians and the changes they want to implement all day, in the end it is still the city's responsibility to step up and be kind. Boston failed rather miserably at this. I think at this point, having some sharing of trauma, either through a restorative justice circle, or a documentary to be shown across the city, or anything to bring this back to the forefront of people's minds, would be very helpful.

I don't think I would deal well with going to school that year. I don't think I would face the same difficulties that the black students faced as they integrated into white schools, but I don't think it would have been good at all. The way busing split the groups into a clear us vs. them was clearly unhealthy and bad. I think the worst things would have been not hearing the support of people in power and the hatred going to school ever day. Definitely not a time I would ever want to travel to.

Today, some of the more noticeable impacts of desegregation are probably the remnants of redlining and the lack of diversity across Boston. Although there is no segregation directly written into law now, not enough has been done to revamp the city. Everything, from exam schools to our neighbours to the community we live in are all remainders of segregation, and in order to implement change, a lot more is going to have to be done.

Originally posted by poutineenthusiast on October 24, 2021 23:42

In my opinion, I feel like I will never be informed enough to confidently say if the ends justified the means. When it comes to the topic of busing, I feel like there's always two sides of the coin. One positive thing has a negative thing behind it. I can't help but think "Hey busing led to the desegregation of schools, and I am now able to go to school with people who don't look like me!... but the racial demographics are still not great and there are many schools that remain majority white or majority black." or "Busing was great because it led to people changing the way they think and seeing each other as equal, but from busing emerged a massive force of hate that still lingers today." The efforts to desegregate schools was very much needed and very significant, yet the residual hate from the anti-busing rallies, or from people who just couldn't see the change still lingers today. Desegregation was a worthy goal, and a very important goal for that matter, but its a goal that we are still working towards everyday.

Despite anyone's opinion on busing, it can be said, without a doubt, that change NEEDED to happen in the BPS system. End of discussion. Segregated schools were a plague that kept children divided and disadvantaged. What can be open to discussion is what could have been done instead. Was busing the best option? Probably not. All decisions made will always have its controversies, backlash, and imperfections but I believe that busing was Judge Garrity working with what he had.

I could NEVER, in a million years, imagine going to school at this time. I grew up in a very ethnically diverse community and have been involved and exposed to many different communities. I am always proud to say that I have friends of many different colors, and the thought of not being able to form those bonds scares me. Despite anyone's opinions on busing, the progress that we have made since then to desegregate schools has been massive, and I will eternally be thankful that I was born in this generation. The fear that many students had back then during this time is astronomical. The hate that follows them as they grow older is terrifying. I really liked all of the articles that I read, but the article that stuck out the most for me was Stockman's "Did busing slow Boston’s desegregation?" Junior shared his experiences with having his own friend set his property on fire. This experience stayed with him for many years, always wondering what he'd say to his friend if he met him again, and when he did, he just hugged him. I could never imagine having that much compassion or forgiveness in my heart, and that's the fact of the matter. The way I would've responded was angrily and with hate. This hatred still lingers amongst the older generation (and it trickles down to the younger generation). Desegregation still haunts us today, as it is seen in our schools that are predominantly one race or another. The schools that tend to be predominantly white remain as the most privileged and well off schools, and the latter remain as the poorer schools. Despite that, we still have made significant improvements.

I agree entirely with what you're saying about the generational impact of busing and segregation. I cannot imagine having to go to school everyday in that atmosphere and having to still function and learn. Every day that early in the morning, and after a long day at school. I honestly can't even imaging it really. I also agree that Judge Garrity was working with what he had, and although perhaps there were better possibilities, change truly needed to happen. We can only look to the present and the future now I guess and try to change it for ourselves and those after us.

Originally posted by GullAlight on October 24, 2021 23:48

Desegregation was definitely a worthy goal, and is still something we're working towards even today. I don't think busing was the best way, but it may have been the only real way that it would have happened urgently. The trauma which was caused by the integration of the schools should be downplayed, in fact, the opposite should probably happen— after all, many of the people who where children are still alive today, and likely still do not know both sides of the story. Although tremendous harm was done why the busing movement and especially the widespread violence and racism were dangerous, it's still important I think to make the best of what has already happened. We can't turn back the clock, but we definitely can still spread the information and tell people about both sides of the story.

I think that at that point in time, there were not many other obvious solutions. After all, change had to happen, but forced busing was probably not the best idea. Although we can talk about politicians and the changes they want to implement all day, in the end it is still the city's responsibility to step up and be kind. Boston failed rather miserably at this. I think at this point, having some sharing of trauma, either through a restorative justice circle, or a documentary to be shown across the city, or anything to bring this back to the forefront of people's minds, would be very helpful.

I don't think I would deal well with going to school that year. I don't think I would face the same difficulties that the black students faced as they integrated into white schools, but I don't think it would have been good at all. The way busing split the groups into a clear us vs. them was clearly unhealthy and bad. I think the worst things would have been not hearing the support of people in power and the hatred going to school ever day. Definitely not a time I would ever want to travel to.

Today, some of the more noticeable impacts of desegregation are probably the remnants of redlining and the lack of diversity across Boston. Although there is no segregation directly written into law now, not enough has been done to revamp the city. Everything, from exam schools to our neighbours to the community we live in are all remainders of segregation, and in order to implement change, a lot more is going to have to be done.

I agree that even though busing wasn't the best solution or was created and implemented effectively, it was the best solution that the city and state had come up with by that time. The schools needed to be integrated and busing was the only solution that anyone could think of and implement in the short time frame that Judge Garrity issued. If the School Committee came out and publicly addressed the city that the school systems were segregated, they may have been able to work with the city in order to solve the many issues plaguing the city. Instead their constant refusal to address the many issues plaguing the schools system, lead to the state and court systems having to step in to remedy the situation the best that they could.

I don’t think that the ends did justify the means here. I think that the desegregation of BPS had to happen, but the entire busing process was horrible. It was an absolute nightmare for the parents, teachers, and most of all students, whose lives were in danger. It wasn’t worth it, because although this was the initial and very painful shove into desegregating BPS, there’s lasting pain and trauma that is arguably more detrimental. I think that the situation could’ve been handled so much better, with a better plan and execution. I don’t think traumatizing the students who were bused was a necessary evil because it could’ve been avoided if more people were less close-minded.