learntoquestion ltq discussions

Originally posted by cnovav on October 06, 2021 15:56

This is happening now because of how fast the country is moving. In other words, things are changing, socially at least. It’s no longer an expectation that everyone lives the same lifestyle in the US. For some reason, that’s such a scary idea for them. For example, Robert Ray, a Neo-Nazi, spoke about how they need to get the country back because the country is “their” (referring to the white man) because it was founded by a bunch of white men also. Robert Ray and so many other people who think just like them are threatened by the fact that there are people who look and live differently than they do. They believe that the growing groups and organizations are all against them and want to rob them of “their” country. This is how the people from January 6, 2021 thought as well. They strongly believed that President Biden was against them (because that’s what President Trump convinced them) and was going to take the country from them and give it to minority groups and so they resorted to violence.

The different groups that are protesting view the world in very different ways because of the way they have experienced the world. In the video one group is referred to as the “alt right” and the other can be referred to as the “alt left”. Members of the alt right constantly express their need to get rid of who they refer to as criminals. Those people are typically minorities, for example: black people, members of the LGBTQ+ community, different religious groups, etc. This is most likely because the life that they know so well, is a very conservative lifestyle. They have stuck to a pretty uniform and “normal” lifestyle where they are not exposed to people who are different from them. Because they don’t know much about the other people and their experiences, if a small group of those people commit crimes, they assume that the entire group is made up of criminals. Unfortunately they turn to violence and hate to “fix” the situation. The alt left is typically the group consisting of people who have experienced the exact opposite. They’ve lived around people who are very different and therefore have become more accepting of different groups of people. So as seen in the video, they want to fight back against the hateful rhetoric being spewed at themselves and others who are similar and/or different to them.

When we looked at the various documents in class, it was a common theme among the documents that people are forced to fit themselves into a certain category racially and/or ethnically. The documents that asked you to bubble in an answer would almost always have very vague options that would easily fit everyone or very specific options that only allowed a select number of people to fit into the category. This further supports the idea that many people today want to remain as conservative as possible and force people into as few groups as possible. This could possibly be because certain groups feel threatened by the formation or acknowledgement of other groups. But it could also be because of their fear of losing what they’re so accustomed to without realizing the hate they are helping spread.

I like how you mentioned that society has been moving fast, and I think that that plays a big factor into this phenomenon. I also like how you stated that people are forced to fit themselves into certain catagories, since many people deal with this problem today. This draws them away from their true identity, and also may cause people to hide who they really are out of fear.

Originally posted by booksandcandles on October 06, 2021 18:15

"White supremacists basically think that white people are better than any other race, and those feelings have become exacerbated in the past fifty years because of how far our country came in terms of slavery and segregation. After Obama, the first black president, white supremacists and even racist people in general were angered by that power of running the country in a black person's hands. Then Trump came along, and it all seemed like it was okay for them to take out their feelings on people protesting for certain things. Change is a difficult thing to deal with, especially if these feelings and views run back so far through time and history."

I agree that the social change that has happened in the last few years has definitely caused a lot of these white-supremacists a lot of anger that they are now taking out in ways like in Charlottesville. Unfortunately with great social change comes backlash. Hopefully we will some day be at a point where we won't need to worry about things like Charlottesville happening.

White supremacy has never left this country, in fact, it has been a core part of this country ever since it was founded. I think that this is happening today still mostly because of the internet. These people will always exist, but without the internet's help, their ideas would not have spread as quickly, nor would they have been able to organize as well as they did. These white nationalists all found each other through a network of white supremacy on the internet, as they said multiple times in the video. They said that they had been organizing for a while now and that there was much more. Also, Donald Trump has influenced people who are like this to show how they are, and over and over again in the last four years he has shown them that there is little consequence for their actions. The police have shown them this as well. The future is very scary in this country, and almost never have we been more divided. Getting Trump out of office is a good start, but we have to keep moving in that direction or all will be lost. This very well could keep happening in this country, because people never learn, and history is doomed to repeat itself. But i am still holding out hope that we can turn it around.

The reason that white nationalists said that they were there was to protest the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue. Robert E. Lee was a Confederate general. But the VICE journalist believed (and so do I) that they were there for a different reason. They were there to show their power and organization to the world. They wanted people to see that they weren't just a social media presence, they weren't just people who posted racist memes online. This was a highly dangerous, white supremacy group. People from 35 different states showed up. The other people were there to counter-protest them, to show that this was not what Charlottesville was all about.

This relates to the categorizing that we did in class because the white supremacists place everyone who is against them into this other category, making it an "us" against "them." In this case "them" is pretty much anyone who isn't a straight, cisgender, white male. In this 22 minute video, they must have spoken multiple slurs many times, and referred to the counter-protesters as "animals." They weren't willing to compromise or speak to the other side, they just wanted everyone to go along with what they wanted. This is completely terrifying, the fact that there are people out there that are putting people into one category like this and refusing to look at it any other way than how they want to see it.

1. Why? Why is this happening now? And what does it portend for the future? (Yes, 2017 was a few years ago now but as you might imagine, it’s easy to draw a line from Charlottesville to what happened on January 6, 2021 and the ongoing polarization in this country.)

I think that this is happening now because of the difference in cultures and ideas which are becoming accepted in society. Society is trying to become more welcoming and preaching that everyone has their own ideas. The idea of Nazi groups are not seen as acceptable, but there is no structure to stop them, and they are beginning to commit acts like Charlottesville. I think that this could be very bad for the future of this country. I think extremist groups will continue to grow and become more prevalent and I think there will be a lot of violence in the future if we do not make a change.

2. How would we describe the phenomenon that seems to be at work in Charlottesville? What’s motivating the different folks protesting there and why do they see the world as they do?

I think what is happening in Charlottesville is a reverse in history. I think these people want to go back to times where slaves were allowed and racism was normal. I think these people clearly have not learned enough from history. I think that people who truly believe these things are unpredictable and will always want violence. We need to stop extremist groups like these from causing terror on our country.

3. Finally, how is this phenomenon connected to what we were doing in class this week—that is, looking at the phenomenon of “bubbling” and categorizing?

I think this phenomenon connects to the idea of bubbling with how we don't really know what is going on. Just like a bubble, you can not tell what is inside someone until you get close enough. I think that maybe these people are just misunderstood and there is a way to teach them and make them civil instead of irrational. I think that there is a solution to these problems and I think people will be able to live peacefully in the future.

Originally posted by Bluekoala on October 06, 2021 20:34

These waves of white supremacy are happening now because of the media attention they have received and encouragement from Donald Trump. During Obama’s presidency, white supremacists were not as bold and public about their views because Obama, being an African American, would’ve immediately condemned them and taken legal action against them. Trump, on the other hand, supported these white supremacists by praising them and never condemning them outright. In the press conference after the Charlositveville event, Trump placed blame on both sides and even tried to downplay the actions of the right side. There was no chance Trump would punish these white supremacists when he was president because many of them were his own supporters. As these white supremacists continue to go unpunished, they will become bolder and more passionate about their views which was displayed during the January 6 Capitol attack.

The phenomenon that seems to be at work in Charlottesville is that these white supremacy beliefs have unified supporters so much so that they have begun to take real action through events and their online presence. The rapidly increasing division between “we” and “they” has led to hatred that is unable to be resolved because they are so set in their beliefs. Some have believed in these beliefs since their upbringing and others began through interactions, but the one thing they all have in common is that they continue to be surrounded by only people who share the same beliefs regarding race, specifically that white people are better than everyone else and their hatred towards every other group. Thus, they do not have any other perspectives on the world besides the one they have now. Although clearly not everyone who protested in Charlottesville shared the same views, they were all there that day because of their beliefs regarding race.

In class, a big theme of the papers was grouping people based on their race which is what is happening now. During the protests, they chanted “White Lives Matter” and clearly expressed their hatred towards Jewish people and black people. This shows how the right have organized into white people and consider everyone else to be on the other side just based on race and ethnicity. For the white supremacists, the only criteria that matters is “bubbling” whether or not you are white. Nothing else that goes deeper than surface level traits is considered just like the categories of the forms from class.

I totally agree with your thoughts about the differences between Trump and Obama's presidencies, I think that Trump was often irrational and influenced these extremist groups to speak their minds and commit these acts. I think that Obama cared a lot more about all people and the United States as a whole and would not have let these groups exist. I think one of the things Obama did best was the protection of all different groups of people and I definitely think that Trump was a main part of this problem and should be doing the opposite.

Originally posted by giraffes12 on October 06, 2021 22:00

White supremacy has never left this country, in fact, it has been a core part of this country ever since it was founded. I think that this is happening today still mostly because of the internet. These people will always exist, but without the internet's help, their ideas would not have spread as quickly, nor would they have been able to organize as well as they did. These white nationalists all found each other through a network of white supremacy on the internet, as they said multiple times in the video. They said that they had been organizing for a while now and that there was much more. Also, Donald Trump has influenced people who are like this to show how they are, and over and over again in the last four years he has shown them that there is little consequence for their actions. The police have shown them this as well. The future is very scary in this country, and almost never have we been more divided. Getting Trump out of office is a good start, but we have to keep moving in that direction or all will be lost. This very well could keep happening in this country, because people never learn, and history is doomed to repeat itself. But i am still holding out hope that we can turn it around.

The reason that white nationalists said that they were there was to protest the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue. Robert E. Lee was a Confederate general. But the VICE journalist believed (and so do I) that they were there for a different reason. They were there to show their power and organization to the world. They wanted people to see that they weren't just a social media presence, they weren't just people who posted racist memes online. This was a highly dangerous, white supremacy group. People from 35 different states showed up. The other people were there to counter-protest them, to show that this was not what Charlottesville was all about.

This relates to the categorizing that we did in class because the white supremacists place everyone who is against them into this other category, making it an "us" against "them." In this case "them" is pretty much anyone who isn't a straight, cisgender, white male. In this 22 minute video, they must have spoken multiple slurs many times, and referred to the counter-protesters as "animals." They weren't willing to compromise or speak to the other side, they just wanted everyone to go along with what they wanted. This is completely terrifying, the fact that there are people out there that are putting people into one category like this and refusing to look at it any other way than how they want to see it.

I like what you said about racism being a "core part of this country". It is so true and we, unfortunately, see it in every aspect of our daily lives (whether we notice it or not). I also agree the internet is an interesting tool used by hate groups to have a platform to speak on and how their platform has evolved from the depths of the internet to the mainstream media.

The reason that all of these things are happening in our society today, is because there has been a separation of groups of people. Especially in politics, there has been a huge divide between both parties. This is what is being spoken about with the terms ``us and them". This mentally of me vs. you or us vs. them is extremely dangerous because it creates targets on peoples backs and divides the country even further than it has already become. The happenings in Charlottesville are a direct correlation to this pack mentality, that has sadly become more and more popular in our country. Even though all of these people in this video that we watched are American's, the people do not view themselves as a whole, they view themselves as rivals who are opposing each other. The phenomenon that took place in Charlottesville can be explained for a few reasons. The first being that the side that originated the protest in Virginia, for whatever reason, felt that their freedom of speech and expression had been violated, and they were there to make sure people knew that they would not let this happen. That's what this situation was described to be, but it was really a situation where that group of white supremacists were trying to intimidate the peaceful group of people. The group of people who were protesting against the white supremacists were trying to defend themselves, as well as the Campus of UVA. The white supremacists felt that there was blame to be passed around, and since they did not want to take responsibility and the blame, they found a group of people who were not at fault and placed the blame on them. They used this false blame to fuel their anger and fuel their attack. This phenomenon is correlated to the activity about bubbling that we did in class because they both have to do with grouping people together. In those forms, the people making them gave choices to pick what to identify themselves with, for things such as race and gender. Similar to this, in the Charlottesville massacre, the white supremicists group gathered a large number of people together so they could attack and place the blame more easily.

The easy answer to the timing of these events would clearly be Trump's presidency. Trump was a literal outlet for hatred and racism. He was openly racist, so the people who also wanted to be racist were felt that their ideals were protected by Trump. In a sense, Trump made it okay to be racist which is a crazy thing to think about seeing as though he was literally the president of the US, the top man of the entire country. When you set the example Trump did, many who align with his ideals will feel that its safe to act just as he does which is what exactly happened, just to a greater extent and more barbaric extent. The motivation behind these protests were both blame and fear. Simply put, white supremacists blamed other groups of people for their short comings. They were given a platform to release all the pent up anger they had and the outcome were these protests. Their reasoning behind this all comes down to stereotyping, which is exactly what all the bubbling and categorizing came down to. A stereotype about a certain skin color is taught and people just run with it.

Originally posted by red on October 06, 2021 22:52

• Combined lack of policing at the violent protest of white supremacists in Charlottesville and Trump emboldening the neo-nazis and white supremacists to not be afraid of consequences, leads to the culmination of violence and growing white supremists ideas. With the manipulation of political ideals, such as the stance immigration, white supremacists create a fanbase by supporting ideas represented in politics that corroborate their racist ideas, like the idea that immigration is somehow an invasion of America or Trump who never outwardly denounced white supremacist groups. This is a foreboding trend for the future, as mentioned at the end of the PBS video numbers of white supremist groups like hammerskins and rise above are growing with increased polarization of the country and rising hatred. Without obvious repercussions for their crimes and their violence as well as public and widespread denunciation of groups such as these, then the evidence suggests that they will become even more emboldened as their numbers grow.

• The phenomenon that is going on in Charlottesville is based in hate and ignorance. White supremacy is a revolting hate that is fueled by fear (of differences), insecurity because it is used as a tactic to gain power, hatred, and ignorance because their ideals are unfounded. So many of the white supremacists were basing their beliefs on unfounded information, such as “our founding fathers” building the country, despite the fact that the country was legitimately built by enslaved African Americans, or “our homeland” when in reality it is stolen land from Native Americans. A lot of the alt. Right protests are reactionary protests to Black Lives Matter protests, as shown through the “white lives matter” stance. Homogenous thought surrounding white supremacists voiced by incompetent leaders perpetuates the hatred and racism. In contrast to the white supremacists protests, Black Lives Matter protests as a response to police brutality and systemic racism are fueled by a want for equity in the modern world

• The white supremacists shown in the vice video have the same segregated train of thought, in which they classify people into bubbles depending on race and/or sexual orientation with the stereotypes that they were taught in a racist society. When one of the men being interviewed for Vice used the phrase “me and my fellow white people” in juxtaposition with his stereotyping of the black community as violent, it highlighted his “bubbling” beliefs. Even towards the end of the video when he classified the protest as a “win” for neo-nazis because they killed a woman and injured the other protesters, he didn’t regard the death as the loss of a human-being, but the loss of an enemy or member of the opposition in his eyes.

100% agree. Trump gave white supremacists an outlet to express their hatred and he kinda backed them up. Without any consequences, it continued which is not something surprising and should have been expected tbh. I also liked that you included how enslaved African Americans built this country because I feel like the white supremacists still feel as though they are in power and can control the black community. I remember in the video one of the white men literally said that they (the white supremacists) were the ones with all the power. It also sucks that the first thought racists have when they see a peaceful Black Lives Matter protest is the whole "white lives matter" movement that you also mentioned. Crazy to me.