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tissuebox
Posts: 32

Should We Integrate? Desegregate? Just “All Get Along”?

In my opinion I believe that there should be equal funding but it really should be based on the schools need. Simply having equal funding does not mean that the school will be as successful as next. The only way that this could happen is if the school board pays attention what school is struggling and put resources to better that school alone. This is really the only realistic way to level the playing field. If we increase the resources and budget for all schools, the really good schools are just going to keep getting better while the really bad schools continue to be really bad schools in relation to the others. In doing this, it really would not matter what school you go to, you’re still getting the same level of education as a child of another race.

The one thing I’m not so sure about is the desegregation of schools. Yes, it could be great for experience but I don’t think it’s completely necessary. I’m happy to be going to such a diverse school but I think that it’s really not necessary for my education per say. I do think that all schools should be diverse but I don’t think that it’s something we can force onto people. As Batson said, the reason why black parents tried to put their children in white schools was because they wanted their children to have the best education possible. It could also be argued that whites wanted to stay with whites because they felt that black children were not as educated. If all schools were literally taught the same curriculum with the same books (quality and all), same programs, same resources, people could not argue that they send ids to certain schools because one is better than the other. Children should go to whatever school they want because they have so many options of GREAT schools and not “bad” ones. Yes, neighborhood segregation would still exist but that is something that can be fixed the same way as schools. EQUITY.

This further proves a point brought up in Hannah-Jones’ article: most school segregation is the result of neighborhood segregation. So, I think that increasing the quality of living in low income housing without necessarily raising the price high enough that people move it, would become the process of desegregating schools naturally.

I don’t know if anyone seeks integration or even desegregation. I think we are all, whether we believe it or not, feeding into the customs of the people before us and what we saw worked for them. It’s important that we try to break that, otherwise we’ll be stuck in a segregated society, even if it’s by accident.

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DaRealSlimShady
Posts: 31

Originally posted by Otto von Bismarck on October 25, 2017 00:01

There is no doubt that the quality gap of the high schools in the BPS system is immense when you compare the three exam schools (yes, even BLA and OB are still really good generally speaking) with, for lack of a better word, worse schools like Westie and Southie High and English. Now, I realize that making the playing field more level won't be as simple as my title suggests, with just the general goal of making funding 'equal' between all Boston high schools. There are many nuances to the situation (which is probably why it's been so hard to rectify), including the strength of alumni and fundraising networks owned by different schools, as well as the fact that the problem isn't so clear cut as the articles (with the word 'segregation'-happy) made it out to be, with white and black schools - most schools in the BPS system barely have any white people anyway, with the last stats I've seen saying that white people only make up 20% or something like that in BPS student bodies.

The real problem is - as we saw in the video and touched on by Dr. Holland - that white people simply aren't taking part in the BPS system really at all anymore, save for the three exam schools. Those whites who can afford it all send their children to private or religious schools if they don't make the cut for BLS or BLA. This is a continuing trend of a sort of white flight that was first put into motion by the laughably stupid plan of judge Garity in the 1970s of forced busing.

This is why, to me, the unequal quality of the high schools in Boston boils down to an economic question, and not a racial one per se. Maybe a few decades ago, white parents would be hesitant to send their kid to a mostly-black school because they held some racist beliefs. But now, for the most part, those same white parents would be hesitant to send their kid to a mostly-black school because that school simply doesn't achieve as well when it comes to test scores and lacks the resources necessary to properly educate a teenager. Now, argue what you want about WHY the majority-black school are generally worse than private schools in Boston, but the fact of the matter is that they are. And I personally wouldn't fault a parent at all for wanting to send their son to say, CM instead of Westie High, because CM is simply a well-funded, better school.

And that, once again, brings us to the economics question. It's my reasoning that 'desegregating' public high schools in Boston isn't the answer, because what is there to desegregate? Most of them are already majority-minority anyways. And as for the private schools full of white kids, it's not like you can legally do anything to 'desegregate' them either, unless you want our city to get slapped with a few hundred lawsuits from half of Westie and Rozzie.

The solution in my opinion is to not agonize over the unbalanced racial demographics of BPS schools, but just to fund them better. Everything's about money; with more money those schools could train their teachers better, buy better books, improve their athletics programs, the whole nine yards. As I've said in earlier posts, race isn't as important to me as practical funding and respect and belief in the potential of individual people. I honestly think that even the 'bad' schools in the BPS system right now can turn out quality students who can rival products from CM and Ursaline if only they were given enough funding to provide their students with the opportunities that they deserve. If that were to happen, I don't think that there would be much discrepancy at all between inner city students and private school students, even if the former was all black and the latter all white. Race isn't as important as funding in the form of cold, hard, cash, and if the BPS system was just given more infusions of that, and perhaps better management to actually make sure that the funding was being invested in the right thing for their students, then I believe that everyone can thrive.

So I suppose for Mr. Gavin's question about whether I seek integration or desegregation - I suppose on this issue, neither. Just belief in the potential of everyone, and more funding for BPS schools in general, no matter what the current financial status of the city is. Sometimes not everything's about race. More times than not, 'race' issues in our country are actually socioeconomic problems if you just care enough to peel back all the surface noise, and this issue in my opinion is no exception.

I agree with your point on funding schools better. Because some schools aren't given as much money, they are not given as much attention and encouragement from their teachers to learn, which then makes the students think that a good education is not that important. Because they are given less opportunities than others, they don't really care for school and end up giving up on school. But, as Dr. Holland said, a good education is so important to obtain so that we and future generations can change the way the school system is now. we have to show them that we do care about our education and will fight for our rights to equal education and opportunity.

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tissuebox
Posts: 32

Originally posted by Blackmamba on October 26, 2017 19:34

I think that busing failed but it honestly made sense to the supreme court at the time. What else were they supposed to do? James E. Farmer said that you can waive a magic wand to get rid of centuries of oppression but at the the time passing this law made the most sense. I think that surrendering the advantage is the only way to level the playing field but that will never happen. If somebody told you to give away all your belongs to people that needed it you would be hesitant. That doesn’t mean you’re selfish just human. I think that we should insist on desegregating our schools because if we don’t try to unite them then they will become more segregated and we will fall back into the same cycle. I think that our real goal is integration but to become an integrated society it will take a long time and forcing people to accept the changes. It might take authoritative action to do this but if a majority of people want this then this might be the only route to accomplish this goal. It’s clear to see that schools with higher minorities tend to be worse off, yet people say this due to the African American culture. I am not sure on if it is because of the way black people conduct themselves but at least funding the schools their children go to would reveal if it is negligence on the culture’s part or on society’s part.

I'm a little confused on the ending of this post. Are you saying that back parents should be contributing more to the schools that their children go to? Or are you saying that if there is more funding, it will show if segregation is a cultural thing or a societal thing?

Also, what do you mean by saying "the way black people conduct themselves"? I don't think it's fair to generalize like that and say "black people". No two people are alike so this comment seems a little confusing and concerning.

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tissuebox
Posts: 32

Originally posted by iLoveFood on October 26, 2017 19:32

I think that integrating schools is a good first step in solving the clear disparity between black and white socioeconomic statuses. However busing was one method to integrate schools, and as Delmont says, “This busing narrative is comforting because it authorizes people to accept the continuing racial and socioeconomic segregation of schools in the United States as inevitable and unchangeable.” Busing, especially in Boston, failed completely, and people use that as a reason for why integration could never work. And to be honest, I also think that unless people decide to that segregation is something that’s wrong and should be changed, nothing will be done. That’s why I think even though integration is a good first step, it might not be the answer to the problem of a segregated public school system.


The first thing to consider is the fact that many cities in the North operate under “de facto” segregation. If one understands this concept clearly, then they might be able to begin to change the system and the people, because this type of segregation is what allows schools in the North to be so segregated, as pointed out in “The Lasting Legacy of the Boston Busing Crisis”. But it’s hard. I honestly think similarly to what Nikole Hannah-Jones thinks; if you want to start seeing equitable schools, then middle-class citizens must be willing to let their children go to high poverty schools and parents must become an integral part of fixing the school up and fighting for better resources for their kids. If every middle class family puts their kids into a good school, these schools will most likely be white and they would just be perpetuating the system, where all the good resources will go to schools with good test scores (usually white dominated schools) and the schools that are dominated by blacks and Latinos will continue to suffer.


But that’s a lot to ask for a family who wants the best for their children, so it’ll probably be hard for this idea to gain traction. In fact, I know I said integration was a good first step in the beginning, but I think there could never be any real integration. With such a deep history of racism and segregation like ours, it might be impossible to really integrate schools, because as we see in Boston, even though busing was forced upon the BPS system, there were still dominantly white neighborhoods that avoided it because they had a strong pull in the government, and the judge listened to them-- I remember Mr. Holland saying that Judge Garrity didn’t force busing onto one of the neighborhoods because the adults in that neighborhood threatened to close down an important tunnel. It’s examples like these that prove how much of a strong hold white people have in the system, and I honestly think things like that won’t be changed. However, if there are people like Hannah-Jones, people who are willing to work on bettering high poverty schools through other means instead of feeding into the system, I think we could be a little closer to the unattainable goal of integration.


So do you think that having a schools funds and resources be based off of what they actually need versus the minimum. Like, if two schools teach teh same exact curriculum, but one school's test scores are low, do you think it would be a good idea to modify only that schools test scores to increase or would you recommend just imporving both?

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walküre
Posts: 17

Is it even possible to do anything?

The Boston Public School system’s current state is extremely segregated. Is this necessarily a bad thing? It depends. I attended an elementary school in Roslindale that was pretty well integrated, until 3rd grade when the opportunity of Advanced Programs arose, and all the white kids who were fortunate enough to get that chance were pulled out by their parents and put into better schools. I say “white kids” because not a single child of color was accepted into the advanced programs from my school. Instead of focusing on integration and segregation, we need to find the very roots of this racial problem. I never understood why, out of all us kids who had attended the same school since kindergarten, only the white kids were selected as a special few. Did it have to do with home environment? Are kids in the school segregated on a one-on-one level? This same argument can be applied to the whole Black At BLS movement because you cant look at a major issue from one perspective, you need to focus on its core. There aren’t as many black kids at BLS because not as many get in as white kids. Again, why does this happen? We shouldn’t insisting on desegregating, we should be insisting on equal opportunities and fair education for every single school in BPS. The quality of schools is the real issue at hand because kids in West Roxbury are doing exponentially better than kids from neighborhoods such as Mattapan and Roxbury - this is, to an extent, crueler than actual segregation. But the neighborhoods themselves are segregated - another major core issue. But people aren’t doing anything to fix this division, they are staying within the protected borders of their familiar color. At this point, i’m not very optimistic about integration in Boston because if we try to force it, there will be heavy backlash just like bussing in the 70’s
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Blackmamba
Posts: 27

Originally posted by Cinquefoil on October 26, 2017 18:58

When looking at the statistics of racial diversity inside Boston Latin school vs. The racial makeup of Boston, there seems to be a major disconnect. 54% of the Boston population is White, and 46% of BLS is White. About 8% of Bostonians are Asian, and in BLS Asians are 29% of BLS. Approximately 25% of Boston is Black, while only 8% of the BLS population is made up of Black students. 18% of Bostonians identify as Latino/a or Hispanic, while 12% of BLS students identify as Latino/a or Hispanic. As we can see from these comparisons, BLS does not accurately reflet the population of the city. But also, this is not only an issue between Black and White students, it is also related to those who are Hispanic, and especially those who are Asian, as the Asian popualtion in BLS has a large gap between Boston population and BLS enrollment, opposite to that of African Americans. The question is: What causes these disparities in polulation?

Part of it is home life and support and knowledge of parents about the opportunities available to students, like learning about the list used to enroll students into elementary school, or signing up for the ISEE test. This already puts families who are new to the area or who do not speak English as a first language at a disadvantage. Also, it is a trend that schools that are majority black and hispanic have lower MCAS scores. This is in part due to teachers who are not engaging or as well trained, as well as a lack of parent involvement. This lack of involvement may be due to the lower income seen in majority black areas, forcing parents to juggle sometimes several jobs as well as looking after their home and family. The lower score schools in Boston often give less notice about things like the ISEE, due to the lower testing success rates of its students, meaning that parents or students must go out of their way to ensure the opportunities for a better education are available.

The problems however, are not only the difficulty in aquiring opportunities through schools, but also the racial makeup of these public schools which are preparing students for their high school and college educations. If schools had a more equal percentage of each race, then each student would be as equally prepard, no matter the color of their skin. However, when more wealthy white or Asian students are enrolled into mainly black schools, some parents choose to opt out of the system completely, due to the lower MCAS scores and supposedly "worse" education. These private school students are then allowed back into the BPS system when applying into exam schools. Private schools also do not grade on the same scale as BPS schools, making it easier for private schools to shift grades higher for their private students. This means that if two students have equal ISEE scores and similar classroom engagement, a private school student is more likely to be accepted into an exam school. Private schools are often fairly expensive, so as previously mentioned, lower-income, often black of hispanic families are unable to enroll their children.

Another dilemma is one we dicussed in class at great length in class, which is the congregation of certain races within certain areas, making the advantage of going to schools within your area, much more beneficial to those living in predominantly White areas where test scores tend to be higher. As Dr. Holland mentioned, there is not an equal chance for opportunity within every BPS school. However, busing is obviously not the way to make those opportunities more readily available. Instead schools should focus on the preparation they are giving their students for tests and high school. The teachers available in each area should be monitered as to be completely sure all teachers are equally engaging and qualified in their lessons. Private schools should be made less readily available for parents who wish to opt-out of the system, and they should be discouraged from allowing private school students back into the BPS system with weighted grades and a non-BPS elementary school education. The only way to encourage diversity is to encourage equality over a period of time, not with immediate court orders as we saw within busing. As Dr. Holland said, the only thing we can do is to get an education and return to Boston with the hopes of fixing things, and although this seems as almost a non-answer, it seems to be one of the only options available to us within this city of separation.

I agree with what is said above. At the end of the day race and integration is a very complex subject so all we can do is educate ourselves and hope others educate themselves so that we will have a more understanding society. BLS is not proportionate to the city but we have to understand that a certain demographic of people are planning to come to BLS for a very long time. The only thing we can do about this is that we have to provide a better education to minority communities so that they can better prepare themselves to apply to BLS and other private schools.

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user4523
Posts: 27

School Desegregation/Integration

The desegregation of schools in America is a problem that has plagued our nation ever since the ruling of Brown vs The Board of Education in 1954, and is a problem that will not be solved easily. One reason that that is true is because of the “surrendering of advantage” mentioned by Hannah-Jones in her article. Schools that cater to mostly lower class, minority students tend to underperform because they can have fewer resources to educate their students than other more affluent schools. For these schools to begin to perform better, however, they tend to need an influx of money, one that often comes with more affluent students who tend to be white. And while many people may support that and believe that the raising up of underperforming is good, when it comes to their own children, they often are not willing to put their child in a school that is underperforming, even if their child’s enrollment would help the school. This is where the surrendering of the advantage comes into play. These more affluent, white, people need to surrender the advantage they have, and enroll their children in underperforming, majority minority schools to help them integrate and slowly begin to perform better.


The issue of how to desegregate schools in cities that are segregated by neighborhood is very difficult. As we saw in the video in class, the forced busing of children across the city did not result in effective integration of Boston’s schools. Instead, it just incited racial violence, and slowly, the schools began to resegregate again, until today, when the schools have become almost entirely segregated again. Today, integration of schools in a city like Boston has become very difficult. Over 75 percent of BPS is minority, so most of the schools in the system will, by default, be majority minority, no matter the neighborhood. This problem is also exacerbated by the three exam schools in the system that siphon off many white and more well off students. So for true integration to happen, many more white students would need to come back into the system, bringing me back to the idea of the surrender of advantage.


I think that desegregation is not necessarily necessary, as long as all students are being educated equally well. I think that overall, over both integration and desegregation, parents and families value the education of their children, so as long as their children get a good education, integration or desegregation is not absolutely necessary. However, now, it seems like the only way to increase the quality of education in many of these schools is to bring in more affluent children, so if desegregation comes along with the increase in the quality of education, that is definitely beneficial for both the children and society.

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cubesquare25
Posts: 31

Originally posted by walküre on October 26, 2017 20:24

The Boston Public School system’s current state is extremely segregated. Is this necessarily a bad thing? It depends. I attended an elementary school in Roslindale that was pretty well integrated, until 3rd grade when the opportunity of Advanced Programs arose, and all the white kids who were fortunate enough to get that chance were pulled out by their parents and put into better schools. I say “white kids” because not a single child of color was accepted into the advanced programs from my school. Instead of focusing on integration and segregation, we need to find the very roots of this racial problem.

I really found your post interesting, especially this part on the AWC (advanced work class) subject. I myself was in an AWC and I'm not going to lie, I think it is without a doubt one of the main reasons I got into BLS. I visited my old school and the makeup of that class is overwhelmingly white while as I peered into other classrooms it was mostly black or latino kids. I find my feeling towards this subject to be very conflicting as I believe that being in this program during elementary school 100% bettered my future but I also believe that every student has the right to be challenged in their education. Also the more I think about it, the more I realize that hearing that there's a class full of the "advanced" students and you're not a part of it will resonate with you and perhaps instill a notion in your mind that you won't ever be good enough. Could this maybe be one of the reasons why it was always the kids from AWC who made it into the exam schools?

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user4523
Posts: 27

Originally posted by Cinquefoil on October 26, 2017 18:58


Another dilemma is one we dicussed in class at great length in class, which is the congregation of certain races within certain areas, making the advantage of going to schools within your area, much more beneficial to those living in predominantly White areas where test scores tend to be higher. As Dr. Holland mentioned, there is not an equal chance for opportunity within every BPS school. However, busing is obviously not the way to make those opportunities more readily available. Instead schools should focus on the preparation they are giving their students for tests and high school. The teachers available in each area should be monitered as to be completely sure all teachers are equally engaging and qualified in their lessons. Private schools should be made less readily available for parents who wish to opt-out of the system, and they should be discouraged from allowing private school students back into the BPS system with weighted grades and a non-BPS elementary school education. The only way to encourage diversity is to encourage equality over a period of time, not with immediate court orders as we saw within busing. As Dr. Holland said, the only thing we can do is to get an education and return to Boston with the hopes of fixing things, and although this seems as almost a non-answer, it seems to be one of the only options available to us within this city of separation.

I don't really agree with your point about making private schools less available, however I do see the issues they cause. They tend to siphon off the more affluent and white children, causing decreases in the quality of public schools. However, I don't think that the way to solve it is by decreasing access. Instead, I think we should put more money and effort into improving our public schools, and hopefully then, more of those student will return to public schools, helping make them more successful for all children.

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user4523
Posts: 27

Originally posted by Otto von Bismarck on October 25, 2017 00:01


The solution in my opinion is to not agonize over the unbalanced racial demographics of BPS schools, but just to fund them better. Everything's about money; with more money those schools could train their teachers better, buy better books, improve their athletics programs, the whole nine yards. As I've said in earlier posts, race isn't as important to me as practical funding and respect and belief in the potential of individual people. I honestly think that even the 'bad' schools in the BPS system right now can turn out quality students who can rival products from CM and Ursaline if only they were given enough funding to provide their students with the opportunities that they deserve. If that were to happen, I don't think that there would be much discrepancy at all between inner city students and private school students, even if the former was all black and the latter all white. Race isn't as important as funding in the form of cold, hard, cash, and if the BPS system was just given more infusions of that, and perhaps better management to actually make sure that the funding was being invested in the right thing for their students, then I believe that everyone can thrive.

I agree with the point you made about demographics and funding. I think that focusing on the demographics isn't necessarily the most important part. Instead, like you said, I think we should focus more on the funding. Increased funding will increase the quality of these schools, and hopefully, over time, this will help them integrate as well.

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Milo2017
Posts: 29

Equality or Equity?

I can’t decide if I am enjoying the ambiguity of Mr. Gavin’s questions or not. Obviously the bottom line is if every school had the same budget (like flat rate based on nothing else) then we wouldn’t have so many failing schools in our district. To a certain extent, BPS is integrated but also not really. The zones are (just like in New York) sending low-income families to “bad” or underfunded schools. I don’t think you’ll ever be able to fully desegregate schools. In reality there will always be some outraged parent who pulls their kid out of the system and puts them into a charter school (which fyi actually makes the city lose money, we’re lucky that Boston doesn’t have a pupil by pupil budget because then we would really lose money). Let’s focus on the topic of exam schools for a minute. At BLS it’s pretty well known that most of our population comes from West Roxbury. Elementary schools in Westie have waitlists that are miles long because they are doing well and actually advertise the fact that exam schools exist. In lower income neighborhoods with underfunded schools to begin with, don’t advertise the exam schools at all, because they need to keep those kids in the school in order to keep the budget they get. The more kids there are in a school, the more money the school receives. If a school has enrolled more kids than the projected amount, they get extra money. Plus, let’s not forget that until last year, BLS didn’t have these tour things for prospective parents. And common misconceptions about exam schools are A. that they cost money and B. that they’re charter. So even if minorities had heard of BLS they didn’t know anything about it (unless of course if your parents are alums or if your school told y’all about it). In the article about New York, they proposed keeping a percentage of seats open for minorities only in an effort to desegregate schools Believe it or not BLS had a similar rule in place. Affirmative Action for BLS meant that half of the admissions were focused on entrance exam scores, and the other half was based on race. So basically 37% of spots were kept open for minorities. But then a little girl named Julia Mclaughlin. Her father decided to sue the BPS because there were kids with equal or lower scores than her that were admitted but she wasn’t. Isn’t this a fun example of white privilege at it’s finest. Her case was overturned yet she still made it to BLS? It’s because her daddy was a rich lawyer and took on another girl’s case with the same problem and they got the policy overturned. Personally I think that in all public schools there should be half seats for white and half seats for minorities. Yes, it’s problematic but if you wanted to even the playing field and force the school board to equitably distribute funds to ALL schools then that would be the most logical, in my opinion, way to go. I probably didn’t answer half the questions I was supposed to but these needed to be said.
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Milo2017
Posts: 29

Originally posted by Otto von Bismarck on October 25, 2017 00:01

There is no doubt that the quality gap of the high schools in the BPS system is immense when you compare the three exam schools (yes, even BLA and OB are still really good generally speaking) with, for lack of a better word, worse schools like Westie and Southie High and English. Now, I realize that making the playing field more level won't be as simple as my title suggests, with just the general goal of making funding 'equal' between all Boston high schools. There are many nuances to the situation (which is probably why it's been so hard to rectify), including the strength of alumni and fundraising networks owned by different schools, as well as the fact that the problem isn't so clear cut as the articles (with the word 'segregation'-happy) made it out to be, with white and black schools - most schools in the BPS system barely have any white people anyway, with the last stats I've seen saying that white people only make up 20% or something like that in BPS student bodies.

The real problem is - as we saw in the video and touched on by Dr. Holland - that white people simply aren't taking part in the BPS system really at all anymore, save for the three exam schools. Those whites who can afford it all send their children to private or religious schools if they don't make the cut for BLS or BLA. This is a continuing trend of a sort of white flight that was first put into motion by the laughably stupid plan of judge Garity in the 1970s of forced busing.

This is why, to me, the unequal quality of the high schools in Boston boils down to an economic question, and not a racial one per se. Maybe a few decades ago, white parents would be hesitant to send their kid to a mostly-black school because they held some racist beliefs. But now, for the most part, those same white parents would be hesitant to send their kid to a mostly-black school because that school simply doesn't achieve as well when it comes to test scores and lacks the resources necessary to properly educate a teenager. Now, argue what you want about WHY the majority-black school are generally worse than private schools in Boston, but the fact of the matter is that they are. And I personally wouldn't fault a parent at all for wanting to send their son to say, CM instead of Westie High, because CM is simply a well-funded, better school.

And that, once again, brings us to the economics question. It's my reasoning that 'desegregating' public high schools in Boston isn't the answer, because what is there to desegregate? Most of them are already majority-minority anyways. And as for the private schools full of white kids, it's not like you can legally do anything to 'desegregate' them either, unless you want our city to get slapped with a few hundred lawsuits from half of Westie and Rozzie.

The solution in my opinion is to not agonize over the unbalanced racial demographics of BPS schools, but just to fund them better. Everything's about money; with more money those schools could train their teachers better, buy better books, improve their athletics programs, the whole nine yards. As I've said in earlier posts, race isn't as important to me as practical funding and respect and belief in the potential of individual people. I honestly think that even the 'bad' schools in the BPS system right now can turn out quality students who can rival products from CM and Ursaline if only they were given enough funding to provide their students with the opportunities that they deserve. If that were to happen, I don't think that there would be much discrepancy at all between inner city students and private school students, even if the former was all black and the latter all white. Race isn't as important as funding in the form of cold, hard, cash, and if the BPS system was just given more infusions of that, and perhaps better management to actually make sure that the funding was being invested in the right thing for their students, then I believe that everyone can thrive.

So I suppose for Mr. Gavin's question about whether I seek integration or desegregation - I suppose on this issue, neither. Just belief in the potential of everyone, and more funding for BPS schools in general, no matter what the current financial status of the city is. Sometimes not everything's about race. More times than not, 'race' issues in our country are actually socioeconomic problems if you just care enough to peel back all the surface noise, and this issue in my opinion is no exception.

At first I thought equal funding was the way to go but to be honest, equitable funding is what needs to be implemented. Because some schools are failing and they're going to need a little bit more funding and attention than the school that's thriving

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Milo2017
Posts: 29

Originally posted by Otto von Bismarck on October 25, 2017 00:01


The real problem is - as we saw in the video and touched on by Dr. Holland - that white people simply aren't taking part in the BPS system really at all anymore, save for the three exam schools. Those whites who can afford it all send their children to private or religious schools if they don't make the cut for BLS or BLA. This is a continuing trend of a sort of white flight that was first put into motion by the laughably stupid plan of judge Garity in the 1970s of forced busing.


Ok, I think in theory Garity had the right idea in mind, and the goal was clear but due to uncontrollable factors- such as extreme push back from people in Southie, to even the school board saying they weren't going to bus unless forced to or the fact that they made it as difficult as possible for busing to be implemented, -he was unable to successfully make a fully integrated school system.

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pats4life
Posts: 34

For the majority of my life I have been going to schools that belong to the Boston Public School System. Now in most of my school years I have had excellent relationships with my teachers and my fellow classmates. However from the fourth grade on until I went to BLS I was enrolled in a Charter school were the majority of the students were African American and Latino and it was in a majority African American or Latino neighborhood. Now personally, I found the school to be the most part easy compared to my other courses in BPS. I flourished there, I got straight A's and never really had to worry about grades. However, thinking back to that and the things that were said by Dr.Holland and in the articles we read it may have been because the school was not the best founded so the education was not as detailed as my prior experiences at BPS. Now I did not have the best experiences at this school and I put that on not only myself because I was super awkward as a kid but also because I was one of the only white kids at my school. Now thinking back to the talks that we have heard, the videos that we have watched and the articles we read, maybe the education was not as difficult as a BPS school on account of the fact that this school usually had other kids who were not as well of so they did not recieve as much funding. In responce to the questions about desegregation in schools I do not think that it is 100% necessary. I say this because I think that it does not matter who sits next to you in a classroom, all that matters is the level of education that you recieve in that school. I think that all of the school everywhere in Boston, not just apart of BPS deserve the same education as someone who goes to a high income school versus a low income shcool. I do not think your finacial situation, of which a large part can be put on race as many people have not had the same financial opportunities on account of their race. I think that every school should have an amazing education in which everyone no matter your race, color, creed, o financial situation, and should provide students the materials needed to succeed. Sadly not just in Boston but around the country we see many kids not getting the help that they need to thrive in today's world because their schools are not providing it. To reitterate, I think that we don't need desegregation, we just need equal education across the board for all students. For example in the article about Nikole Hannah Jones talking about her childhood, I found it interesting to hear about her expirence and how she described it as a "I remember those years as emotionally and socially fraught, but also as academically stimulating and world-expanding." Now for the most part in my oppinion, the kids in the schools was not the problem whether they were white or black or latino or asian or anything else, the racial demographics did not bother me, what bothered me was the fact that they were not getting the same education because they were in a low income school. I think instead of moving the kids to another school often far from home, they should have given the lower income schools and overhaul and beefed up their educational system so it was equal to that of the higher income schools.I also think that being around a group of your own race makes you a bit more comfortable but I'm not saying that you should not try to meet new people because they are a different skin color than you. There is a school right down the street from my house which is prodimnantley Black or Latino and I often ask my Mom and Dad why I just did not go there. And they always say they do not want the same situation that I had at my old school where I was the only white kid in the school. And now that we have had this conversation it makes me think on how we can still see segregation in our school system and how even after all these years it is still a problem. As I said before the problem lays in the fact that kids are not getting the same education on account of the fact that they are in these low income schools, and that is just not right.

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pats4life
Posts: 34

Originally posted by orangesaregood on October 25, 2017 00:49

Originally posted by Otto von Bismarck on October 25, 2017 00:01

The real problem is - as we saw in the video and touched on by Dr. Holland - that white people simply aren't taking part in the BPS system really at all anymore, save for the three exam schools. Those whites who can afford it all send their children to private or religious schools if they don't make the cut for BLS or BLA. This is a continuing trend of a sort of white flight that was first put into motion by the laughably stupid plan of judge Garity in the 1970s of forced busing.

So I suppose for Mr. Gavin's question about whether I seek integration or desegregation - I suppose on this issue, neither. Just belief in the potential of everyone, and more funding for BPS schools in general, no matter what the current financial status of the city is. Sometimes not everything's about race. More times than not, 'race' issues in our country are actually socioeconomic problems if you just care enough to peel back all the surface noise, and this issue in my opinion is no exception.

I agree with Otto von Bismarck. I was told, however, that it was the other way around, and that white suburban kids went to BLS because they were rejected from prestigious private high schools. She said that there are so many white people from West Roxbury at BLS because "they can't get into the private schools, so they just end up at BLS instead."

I interviewed a faculty member from BLS, who said "Everyone was so divided, and yet they all wanted the same thing: good schools. That was what they were fighting for.” The busing crisis was a racial manifestation of socioeconomic inequality between neighborhoods located in close proximity to each other.

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