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freemanjud
Posts: 70

Readings:

Hua Hsu, “The End of White America?” The Atlantic(January/February 2009), pp. 1-16. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/01/the-end-of-white-america/307208/


William H. Frey, “The US Will Become ‘Minority White’ in 2045, Census Projects,” Brookings Institution, March 14, 2018 (updated September 10, 2018).

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/03/14/the-us-will-become-minority-white-in-2045-census-projects/


Hua Hsu wrote this important article for The Atlanticearly in 2009, just as Barack Obama was being inaugurated as the first acknowledged black (aka: mixed-race) president of the United States. Read this article carefully, along with an article from the Brookings Institution blog from ten years later, projecting that the entire United States will become “minority white” in 2045. (The latter article continues all sorts of statistical information as to when each age group will become majority non-white.)


Do white people care? Is it the “end of white America,” as Hsu puts it? Is there a “white America” to begin with? And if there is, how does the existence and preservation of a “white America” explain the systems of oppression that have existed in this country since its post-indigenous founding?


And if “white America” disappears (or is diminished), do you project that the systems of oppression that exist in this country will change? Or not? How?


In your response, make sure you reference the readings, what we’ve been discussing in class, as well as respond to at least one of your classmates.

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RedStudent
Posts: 19

Beige America

The projection is that the United States will be minority white by the year 2045. Do white people care? I feel the white people that would care are the one’s who’s opinion shouldn’t matter. I think it’s great if you’re proud to be white or proud to be Asian or whatever you are. I don’t think it’s great if you think your race is better than someone else’s. I do believe there is a “white america”, but I think that group is getting smaller and smaller as years go by. Thanks mostly to immigration, the United States has become less white because of both immigrants moving here but also because many of the people living in the US that would identify as white are getting into interracial relationships. With interracial relationships becoming more common a beige America as was referenced in Hua Hsa’s article may over take the old white america.

I think there is a white America and in the civil war days and up through the 70’s white america was strong. With white America being big and strong many in that majority felt power over people that weren’t like them. They oppressed minorities and they would set laws and rules trying to keep minorities down to allow white people to maintain power. Since white people had the power and control there wasn’t much that could be done to stop them. Even in the 90’s as referenced in Hsa’s article “Mr. Clinton assured us that it will be a better America when we are all minorities and realize true ‘diversity.’ But in response to that speech by Mr. Clinton, Pat Buchanan said “Well, those students are going to find out, for they will spend their golden years in a Third World America.” Mr. Buchanan who is an old white guy clearly thinks as minorities marry whites and immigrants move here that they will make America a horrible place to live and that way of thinking is wrong and ignorant.

With the Brookings projections showing that whites will be the minority by 2045 and within my age group whites are already the minority many things will change. I think since having a black president and having minorities and women being elected into office things will change. I also think younger generations are way more inclusive to other people. I also feel like back in the day the color of your skin was the #1 thing people looked at you and judged you based on your race. As time goes by I think most people, while they see your race it’s not what the focus is. Yeah there will always be white people thinking they’re the better race, but if Brookings projections are right there will be less and less of them each year

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pannafugo
Posts: 17

"White" America

White people are acutely aware of how they treat and oppress minorities, so they fear being treated the same way if we become the minority. To prevent this, white people vamp up the violent rhetoric of how “white America” is disappearing, which causes other whites to further oppress minorities in an attempt to run them out of the country. Not all white people are like this, but the ones who are are extremely vocal about their fears.


For starters, I do not believe white America existed in the sense that these people mean it. Yes, this country has been majority white for its entire history, and the government and all leadership positions in corporations have been dominated by whites. Just as America has never been “great”, America has never been truly white. Whites have dominated, absolutely, but while minorities are a smaller part of the population, they contribute just as much to what America is and always has been. So what Hsu says is the end of “white America”, to me, is just the population of American becoming more diverse.


People want to erase the contributions minorities have made to this country. That is why people refer to it as white America; they want it to be white, they want to believe white people made this country what it is today, and only white people.


I found it a little ridiculous that people are scared that white people will be the new “minority”. When you look at the numbers, white people will make up only a little less than half of the population, where as minorities as a whole make up the after half. Oh no, white people will only make up 49.7% of the population. How tragic. It is incredible that people, both past and present, fear minorities so much. Hsu’s article mentions Lothrop Stoddard, who said “Colored migration is a universal peril, menacing every part of the white world.” People in America still think this way, though it is not as overt; it falls more under the covert white supremacy umbrella, like police brutality.


I do not think a “white minority” will change how systems of oppression in America work; in fact, I feel they may heighten due to the rampant fears of white supremacists that they are being erased. They will oppress minorities with even more vigor than before. I think change will only begin to occur after several generations. The first article with the statistics showed that over time, the young population will become more diverse, as the aging and dying population will be mostly white. After many years of this, there is a possibility that systems of oppression will begin to be changed. However, this would still be difficult to do, as these systems have been in place in America for centuries. It will take decades, if not centuries, to undo them and their effects.


However, I do agree with RedStudents remarks that young people today are more accepting and are less likely to judge based on race. Nevertheless, white supremacy will always exist, no matter how hard we as Americans try to get rid of it.

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shorty123
Posts: 16

America as we’ve always known it

I think that white superiority has been around forever so if white people were to become the minority they would care. I believe that when you’ve been the majority your whole life, you don’t take into reasoning the lives of those who are the minority so the white people, in my opinion, would not be able to handle it. The term “white America” is an interesting one because America wasn’t even founded by white people and America is the way it is today because of other races. But when I also think of that term I think of how white people, because they are the majority, are just more advantageous in America so I believe that that meaning is true. The laws that every race has to follow were made by men who almost all had slaves. These same laws have been kept for years and even though times have changed, those same laws made by people who saw black people as property, are used on people of color. Black people back in that time were oppressed and seen as worthless and deserving of being in the bottom. Many white people still have these beliefs. As Hsa brought up in his article, many privileged people who look like Tom Buchanan from The Great Gatsby or Mr Stoddard see minorities coming into America as menacing. It’s sad because many people feel this way and it’s almost socially acceptable now. Trump always says “Make America Great Again” but when was America really ever great? When black people were slaves? It’s ridiculous how we have a leader who thinks a time of such injustice was “great” and that he is trying to bring it back to that. If white america disappears, or if minorities start to become more evident, unfortunately in my opinion I don’t think that the systems of oppression will go away. We live in a world, where since the beginning, the white group has been privileged. Although I think the systems of oppression will change for the better a little bit, I think that white supremacy might become an even bigger issue than today if they become the minority. I think that there are a lot of white people who just believe that the world can’t function if white people arent on top. But a part of me feels and hopes that because the youth right now are so open minded for the most part and don’t focus specifically on race as much as the elders, things will get better in 2045. But to contrast that, a lot of youth today also don’t understand their privilege and don’t see the systems that we have in place as a problem so I think for things to move positively forward, people have to be educated properly.
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Regina Phalange
Posts: 19

Do numbers count?

To me, “White America” is more than just numbers. For some, “White America” literally just means living in a country where white privilege silently and systematically benefits them. This is shown through the “Make America White Again’’ billboard, and even through mainstream media, when Fox News anchors argue that diversity in America is a weakness.


I think that a lot of white people might feel threatened by the statistics showing that they will soon be a numerical minority because they think that it will somehow take something away from them. Similar to some of the arguments against affirmative action, people think that increasing diversity means punishing white people or giving advantages to POC at white people’s expense. As quoted in Hsu’s article ““I think white people feel like they’re under siege right now—like it’s not okay to be white right now, especially if you’re a white male.” This goes back to the idea of white fragility, and the defensiveness of white people when racial issues are addressed, especially in the context of political correctness. A lot of white people detest the somewhat recent normalization of addressing racism in mainstream institutions and/or platforms because they may feel that they are being discredited of directly blamed for such oppression. I’m not sure, but I think that a lot of (maybe older) people believe that the ideal “White America” is the America of the past-- when people of color still faced socially acceptable discrimination, because it wasn’t their problem.


Unfortunately, I predict that the fears of “White America” enthusiasts are irrational because I don’t think that sheer numbers will change the system of oppression that exists. Maybe other factors will contribute to diminishing racial inequality, but just the fact that there are more people of color in America likely won’t change much. For example, billionaires definitely aren’t a numerical majority in America, but they still reap immense benefits from the government and the people in power. The amount of power that a group has is much more significant than the number of people, so I think that racism will continue, despite a lower share of white people in the population. Something else that I noticed from the charts in the Brookings article was that white people will still have a higher percentage than any other singular race, so they remain a numerical majority in that sense. Nevertheless, I think that shifting distributions of population can, at most, lend itself to cultural changes, which, in turn, can possibly contribute to the dismantling of “White America.” But overall, I don’t think that white people not being a numerical majority will have an institutional effect or spark any major systemic change.

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Regina Phalange
Posts: 19

Originally posted by pannafugo on October 30, 2019 18:28



People want to erase the contributions minorities have made to this country. That is why people refer to it as white America; they want it to be white, they want to believe white people made this country what it is today, and only white people.


This is a really interesting point. How can it be white America if all types of people have contributed to its success, despite the discrimination they may have faced? In this sense, "white America" is just something made up, which is strange to try to defend.

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dummkopf
Posts: 21

Ignoring history

The answer to the question: Do white people care?, really depends on who you ask. Many white people will care. White people who have racist tendencies and who feel like a more diverse population is a threat to their society will care. But it is not ‘their’ society. It is our society. America was not originally a white society, nor was it ever close to a completely white society. So people should not be bothered by the fact that the United States is becoming more diverse right? Some white people do not care, and celebrate the oncoming diversity, however many do not. The people who don’t, have an internalized notion that they are the beginning of America. These white people feel like they are the sole reason why American culture is at its current state. Their cultural appropriation is justified as borrowing, or simply explained as something they invented. They claim that immigrants, or really anyone who isn’t white does not benefit the country, and actually worsens our economy. In terms of the reference to The Great Gatsby, in the article from The Atlantic, some white people still have this view of non-white people taking over their jobs or something like that. They are scared of change, because they think it will mess up something they already deem perfect. To answer the question, many white people care (an example would be those who are wailing about “making America great again” because when was America ever great?), and many do not care.

I do not think the ‘end of white America’ will be coming anytime soon. We live in a white culture, and even with all of our progressive ideas and laws, it will be hard for people to adopt a new culture, especially if white culture is internalized into them. We do not notice that we live in a white culture, because we are deeply submerged into it. On the other hand, as someone said in class today, white culture in America cannot be completely called white culture because it has taken parts of other cultures and adopted them into their own. There is not a ‘white America’ to begin with; just going off of history and straight facts. There is however the era of discrimination (that still continues slightly more subtly) against non-white people and the blatant ignorance of their contributions to society and culture that make America what it is today. According to some people, the history of America is the parts that they want to hear. This is the reason why so many history books are/were Eurocentric. The people who wrote those books placed an importance on white history, not on world history. But world history and white history are not the same thing, and white history is certainly not the most important or the only history to learn.

If ‘white America’ disappears, I think the systems of oppression in America will either slightly change or shift to focus onto a different group of people. No matter how perfect we think we can make our society, there will always be people who have a disadvantage compared to others, or who think there is something specific negatively affecting them or their livelihood. They will look for someone to blame, and will eventually start blaming everyone who looks similar to that person.

I want our society to focus on the individual, not to discriminate against people based off of what they look like, or where they come from.


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dummkopf
Posts: 21

Originally posted by shorty123 on October 30, 2019 19:31

I think that white superiority has been around forever so if white people were to become the minority they would care. I believe that when you’ve been the majority your whole life, you don’t take into reasoning the lives of those who are the minority so the white people, in my opinion, would not be able to handle it.

I would like to disagree and agree with your statement. I don't think white superiority has been around forever, I think it simply had no reason to exist before a certain time. Before white people started to associate themselves with success and intelligence, I think they were mostly indifferent to people who had different skin colors than them (especially since there was a lack of contact between them). After they became some of the leading world powers, they decided to justify it through their skin color, which led to the mess we have today. Superiority has existed for ages, but I think superiority in terms of race has not. I completely agree with your second sentence. It is indeed impossible for people to relate to things they have not experienced, no matter how much they think their circumstances or certain knowledge makes them able to understand.

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Warnerbros
Posts: 24

Water

Today in class we talked about a quote which said that white supremacy is not the shark, it is the ocean. I agree with this quote because instead of spontaneous attacks white supremacy takes up most of the world and is prevalent even if you can not see it all the time. I think some white people care that they are going to be a minority, while others don't care about it. I eel that giving a date to the "end of whites" brings a lot of fear to white supremacist because the year 2045 it seems so close. Personally I don't believe that it is the end of white people in America because there are major parts of America where it is pushed for "pure reproduction" and parts that are majority white. Hsu says in "The End of White America?" that "The son of Indian immigrants doesn’t have to become “white” in order to be elected governor of Louisiana. A half-Kenyan, half-Kansan politician can self-identify as black and be elected president of the United States." This is significant because poc don't need to imitate white people to get higher ranking positions. However, it doesn't mean that poc can put in the same amount of effort as a white people and get a fair chance at the job, poc have to work harder. This is where discrimination also plays a major part. The racism, sexism, able-ism, antisemitism- anti-Muslim, etc. All of these systems of oppressions branched of the white insecurity and mentality of "they are going to replace us", a version of this motto was also used in the Charlottesville rally. Even if white america was to disappear the scars of the past would always be there, There will always be people who discriminate against others. For whatever reason humans need to differentiate amongst themselves.

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Warnerbros
Posts: 24

Originally posted by RedStudent on October 30, 2019 16:40

The projection is that the United States will be minority white by the year 2045. Do white people care? I feel the white people that would care are the one’s who’s opinion shouldn’t matter. I think it’s great if you’re proud to be white or proud to be Asian or whatever you are. I don’t think it’s great if you think your race is better than someone else’s. I do believe there is a “white america”, but I think that group is getting smaller and smaller as years go by. Thanks mostly to immigration, the United States has become less white because of both immigrants moving here but also because many of the people living in the US that would identify as white are getting into interracial relationships. With interracial relationships becoming more common a beige America as was referenced in Hua Hsa’s article may over take the old white america.

I think there is a white America and in the civil war days and up through the 70’s white america was strong. With white America being big and strong many in that majority felt power over people that weren’t like them. They oppressed minorities and they would set laws and rules trying to keep minorities down to allow white people to maintain power. Since white people had the power and control there wasn’t much that could be done to stop them. Even in the 90’s as referenced in Hsa’s article “Mr. Clinton assured us that it will be a better America when we are all minorities and realize true ‘diversity.’ But in response to that speech by Mr. Clinton, Pat Buchanan said “Well, those students are going to find out, for they will spend their golden years in a Third World America.” Mr. Buchanan who is an old white guy clearly thinks as minorities marry whites and immigrants move here that they will make America a horrible place to live and that way of thinking is wrong and ignorant.

With the Brookings projections showing that whites will be the minority by 2045 and within my age group whites are already the minority many things will change. I think since having a black president and having minorities and women being elected into office things will change. I also think younger generations are way more inclusive to other people. I also feel like back in the day the color of your skin was the #1 thing people looked at you and judged you based on your race. As time goes by I think most people, while they see your race it’s not what the focus is. Yeah there will always be white people thinking they’re the better race, but if Brookings projections are right there will be less and less of them each year

I agree with you when you said that the younger generations are more inclusive however I eel as though until we get to the point where our generation and younger generations are getting higher ranked positions then there will be more change, but then again there are still many kids our age who are narrow minded but not in great numbers compared to generations before.

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DuckBoots
Posts: 25

White Tears Over White Fears

Hua Hsu asks "What will it mean to be white after “whiteness” no longer defines the mainstream? Will anyone mourn the end of white America? Will anyone try to preserve it?".

White America is a true concept. America's culture has been formed to fit the white man's dreams since the colonizers arrived here. Every aspect of life here is geared towards white people's wants and "needs". They get the whole supermarket, but everyone else gets one isle. When any business thinks of a safe and professional client their image is a white man in a suite. Although we are progressing we are a far cry away from equality.

I will not mourn the end of white America along with many of its citizens, but to many it will prove apocalyptic. To have a fusion of cultures in your life is to live richly. Growing up in the city of Boston we are lucky to interact with so many different people every day. My cousin who lives in the suburbs of another state has one person of color in her entire grade and is moving here to escape that. To some a white-washed country is the way it is meant to be. In their minds America is the land of English speaking and white "natives". Oh how quickly they forget who was here first and what language and culture is originally American.

Speaking of language, will English prevail in the future? Spanish has already topped it in the most commonly used languages, and if Hispanics are to make up 32% of the under 18 population I think that our grandchildren will be learning how to read and write in Spanish in Kindergarten. English will still be used, but the "Spanglish" concept, which is already apparent (just listen to any train chatter) will place itself into urban settings and spread out.

I am sure that there will be efforts to keep the white gene pure. Much like nobles interbreeding to keep the blood "pure" that will turn messy quite quick. Among the general public, I don't think there will be much of a protest. Most people want to marry and have children with the person they love. Race and gender have ceased to be legal barriers and now is not a commonly held social barrier. To be a mosaic of multiple races is beautiful and upheld in social media and marketing. Models are of all races and that "bronze" skin and unique hair that many bi-racial children have is desirable. Look at the band aids and new Crayola packs we looked at in class.

Unfortunately, the concept of lighter skin as superior will not vanish along with the white majority. I wish it would, but as people become darker shades the idea of "the whiter the better" will still be around. I have hope that it will fade into the background of American politics and our day-to-day lives, but right now that seems far fetched.

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DuckBoots
Posts: 25

Originally posted by shorty123 on October 30, 2019 19:31

I think that white superiority has been around forever so if white people were to become the minority they would care. I believe that when you’ve been the majority your whole life, you don’t take into reasoning the lives of those who are the minority so the white people, in my opinion, would not be able to handle it. The term “white America” is an interesting one because America wasn’t even founded by white people and America is the way it is today because of other races. But when I also think of that term I think of how white people, because they are the majority, are just more advantageous in America so I believe that that meaning is true. The laws that every race has to follow were made by men who almost all had slaves. These same laws have been kept for years and even though times have changed, those same laws made by people who saw black people as property, are used on people of color. Black people back in that time were oppressed and seen as worthless and deserving of being in the bottom. Many white people still have these beliefs. As Hsa brought up in his article, many privileged people who look like Tom Buchanan from The Great Gatsby or Mr Stoddard see minorities coming into America as menacing. It’s sad because many people feel this way and it’s almost socially acceptable now. Trump always says “Make America Great Again” but when was America really ever great? When black people were slaves? It’s ridiculous how we have a leader who thinks a time of such injustice was “great” and that he is trying to bring it back to that. If white america disappears, or if minorities start to become more evident, unfortunately in my opinion I don’t think that the systems of oppression will go away. We live in a world, where since the beginning, the white group has been privileged. Although I think the systems of oppression will change for the better a little bit, I think that white supremacy might become an even bigger issue than today if they become the minority. I think that there are a lot of white people who just believe that the world can’t function if white people arent on top. But a part of me feels and hopes that because the youth right now are so open minded for the most part and don’t focus specifically on race as much as the elders, things will get better in 2045. But to contrast that, a lot of youth today also don’t understand their privilege and don’t see the systems that we have in place as a problem so I think for things to move positively forward, people have to be educated properly.

I agree with the excellent point by shorty123 that America was never truly great. Our pledge claims that we have "liberty and justice for all", but we all know that the phrase has never and still holds no truth. Our justice system favors white people and the school to prison pipeline traps the others in a cycle that lands them in prison where the government panned on them being from day one. I also believe that education is the key to making a better world for us all where everyone knows of the things that have united us across all of history. Youth today are active in social issues, but I agree that our generation needs to keep pushing the issue so 2045 can be a brighter future.

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ghostchicago
Posts: 22

Our Past and Future

As Hsu seems to say in the article, it is very hard to define exactly what whiteness is. Some may say it is simply the same as Caucasian or Aryan, when others would disagree. But whiteness seems to extend beyond simply skin color, in the way that it seems to be ingrained in our society and many of our institutions. It is an undeniable fact that there are systems in place benefitting white people over people of color. While these institutions may not be inherently obvious, and some instances of this privilege may be socially accepted, they still exist to aid white people in different aspects of life. America has a racist past, there’s no denying that. That history of heinous racism and white supremacy guides the legacies of today, and has shaped our country. Certainly the America of today is an improvement of how it used to be, but we are in no way living in a post-racial society.


Even if this idea of the “white America” does end up disappearing in the future, the systems that are in place now will likely not disappear. Many of these privileges and institutions are built into the structure of our country, dating back to our founding documents. Despite demographic change, much of this will still exist. To truly topple these systems, it will take time and a true acknowledgment of the wrongdoing in order to truly grapple with the issue.


To answer the question of do white people care, I think the answer is that it depends. As seen in the Brookings article, the population under the age of 18 will become minority white by 2020, while the population over 65 will remain majority white until after 2060. I think that attitudes towards this changing demographic will differ between populations based on age. As young people, we have grown up in a much more demographically diverse America than our grandparents, and it will most likely be much easier for us to accept the new makeup of the United States population, simply due to the fact that it is more familiar to us.

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RedStudent
Posts: 19

Originally posted by Warnerbros on October 30, 2019 21:13

Originally posted by RedStudent on October 30, 2019 16:40

I agree with you when you said that the younger generations are more inclusive however I eel as though until we get to the point where our generation and younger generations are getting higher ranked positions then there will be more change, but then again there are still many kids our age who are narrow minded but not in great numbers compared to generations before.

I absolutely agree with you. There will always be white supremacy. There will always be hateful people in the world. I think it’s good to also look at how far we’ve come. From the civil war where people owned slaves to the civil rights movement to electing Obama as president. There will always be evil but I have hope for a less discriminating and ignorant future because I have faith in our generation to make it right and raise our kids to be more inclusive of others.

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ghostchicago
Posts: 22

Originally posted by DuckBoots on October 30, 2019 21:25

Speaking of language, will English prevail in the future? Spanish has already topped it in the most commonly used languages, and if Hispanics are to make up 32% of the under 18 population I think that our grandchildren will be learning how to read and write in Spanish in Kindergarten. English will still be used, but the "Spanglish" concept, which is already apparent (just listen to any train chatter) will place itself into urban settings and spread out.

I really like the point made here about Spanish and language in our society. Even though today Spanish tops English as the most used language in the United States, we are not taught it in school. We are not encouraged to learn and use Spanish as a primary communication language. Hopefully, this will change for our children and grandchildren. This would require systematic changes to the way our society functions, and the ideals that many place about what is truly important to be taught in school. I think that many will reject the idea of Spanish language education, again owing back to this idea of the "white America" and the preservation of these ideals.

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