posts 31 - 40 of 40
Avatar
sea salt
Posts: 5

Originally posted by shorty123 on October 07, 2019 17:21

I feel like there are two categories of discrimination. I think that one is the way people subconsciously categorize and group people, and the other is negatively feeling a way about a certain group of people. Subconsciously grouping someone usually happens when you first meet them, and no it does not need to happen but it is someone's choice to decide if they are going to let what someone is change their view on them. I think a lot of people are unknown to to different cultures and backgrounds that are not their own, so when they see a difference from what they see as their “normal”, they retaliate to judging. Sometimes it’s just in their mind and never said aloud but many people do say these hurtful things out loud. Also in todays world, there are some hateful groups, for example rascit or homophobic groups, that have judged more vocally. People like that not only encourage others to feel that way, but also encourage others to hate or want to hurt people for who they are. The point of judgement is to create an opinion on a certain idea, and I think everyone will “judge”, but it is 100% up to a person to look at certain things with an open mind rather than a closed and negative mind. I feel like we do have a choice in this though. I think that as long as you are judging something positively, and that has nothing to do with another human being, someone's identity, or a specific group of people, then “judging” is fine. Like for example you can feel negatively about an ice cream flavors that you do not like, but you should never say you feel negatively about someone because they are a specific group of people. Choice is also a huge part of life because every choice you make affects you, which is why everyone should have the right to choose for themselves. In Sheena Iyengers Ted Talk, she compares France to the US when speaking of patient-doctor choices. More families in the US, when asked if they felt better about controlling the fate of their child, were happy that they decided to cut the cord rather than the doctor because they felt that it was their choice to do so. But, in France, they felt more comfortable with the doctor deciding. Iyengers speaks about how in America from an early age, we encourage choice and stop the sheltering of individuals because no one knows about you more than you but in other countries a lot of people are influenced by the opinions of their parents and the authoritative people around them. I believe that we can live in a world where people only judge upon first meeting someone and don’t negatively discriminate against others, but it’d be difficult because some people just aren’t willing to change.

I believe that judgment occurs even if someone is within your understanding of 'normal.' Considering something to be normal is a judgment in itself. Also why must judging be positive? I agree that directly and openly judging a person for being of a certain group is wrong, but why can't one judge a specific aspect of someone. Say a person tends to slack off in group projects; is it wrong to judge them then?

Avatar
silentnight
Posts: 4

Why? Who Tells Us To? What Compels Ourselves To?

Big, scratched, lopsided, tiny, symmetrical. We all had to make a bias given the information provided by the peppers. We were told to “choose the best”, but what does that mean? For me, I focused on the aesthetics aspects that the peppers may have had that evoked a sense of that pepper being superior. My winner was pepper #4. Choice and discrimination are the means for people to see the options given, come to a conclusion by some sort of individual ranking system, and then act upon it. But do we need to go through this process?

There is a basic need to identify just as we need to label and compartmentalize, referring back to the previous post about categorizing people. We all need to see some degree of difference, but the variance of that said difference relies on the extent and the method to the madness. I believe that there is an occasional need to discriminate among things and people. The reason being, when the subject involves humans, there is stigma and our moral conscience comes into play. Racism is negatively looked upon as an act of separation, deeming your own race is superior. There shouldn’t be a need to discriminate because even the concept of race is subjective and cannot truly be defined by provided definitions that vary across the entire world. In other cases, however, such as choosing a better source of energy, is a necessary and positive decision-making skill. Understanding the benefits of healthy, organic foods will aid in having a long life and thus ranking it as a better option over others is a must. This leads me to my next point.

Must we judge then? I do not believe that we should judge people and act upon it under any circumstance. The pure decision to act on something is entirely personal, whether good or bad. Thus, if we learn to not take any action then we can learn to not physically judge. Is it possible to not judge at all? I don’t think so. I learned through experience that the second-hand thoughts and judgments of a person or decision usually matters more. We are guided and led to think in a certain responsive way and most times it’s faster than our reaction times and we cannot help this. Our environment and nurturing have shaped us early on before we even had a chance to be self-aware of ourselves. The whole point of judgment is to have a sense of and find another understanding to make sense of the world and life. We aren’t given much to process it with so we create these intangible methods that are very unique to peoples and populations.

I believe that since there are no universal and consistent heavenly bodies of law that should govern our choice of whether we want to make a decision or not, we should not have to surely choose all the time or vice versa. There can be a healthy balance of both.

Upon watching “On the Art of Choosing” presented by Sheena Iyenger, it’s clear to me that, like almost anything philosophical, there are more things that stay in a gray area rather than decisively being purely good or bad. The role of choices in society, as indicated by the video, represents the common mind of the people. Iyenger states, “In America, the primary locus of choice is the individual”, which strongly defines the self of one by their decisions rather than the actual product, brand, or thing they may have chosen. The importance lays in the act. I saw a video on the social media platform, Instagram, the other day that was similar to the experiments Iyenger executed. In this video, a color-blind young man was asked by his mother to sort out different shades of green M&Ms she gave to him. What force compelled him to do? Was his performance based on the pressure his mother may have had on him? When this young man took his specialized glasses to see the colors again, he was devastated upon learning that he was off by a few. What does this mean?

It is important to note in other nations, other societies, there is a fundamental difference in which the locus of choice lies in the sense of community. This warrants everyone with this mindset to focus less on themselves and to take in the account the outcome on others, ultimately “amplifying one another’s success” because it was a collective act. With such varying approaches to decision-making, a society will come together to create a common ground within a common environment. Is it essential to society function then? Yes and no. It certainly helps run the current societies presented in our world. However, I believe in the off-chance that it doesn’t need to exist in another alternate world.

There are two vital, yet subtly difference definitions of discrimination as provided by the online Oxford Dictionary. One is the “recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another”, essentially a "discrimination between right and wrong”. I would say that people do need this in the world. We have developed our brains to include the idea of a moral compass that is entirely unique to everyone but can be shaped and evolve, which thereby governs our actions. The other being “the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex”, which would mean there are "victims of racial discrimination". I do believe there is a world out there in which we do not need this sort of bias. However, in this world, it begs the question not only to us Facing students but to everyone - what good does it do to have such bigotry?


In response to “DuckBoots”, I fully agree with their statement that “what we can change is how we act on these judgments”. In the situation presented with peppers, we have no control over the supply/amount/quality of those peppers. They were there for us to examine and look at, all that was given. A changing factor is within us, humans. We have the ability to change our decisions, to reevaluate our choices, and finally, see what the answer is to us. Many classmates made an argument saying they did not want to pick, as we could all sense where the discussion was heading. However, as some say, the words of the teacher are absolute within their classroom and so, they chose; Some decided certain peppers for pity points, others because they already had one in mind, but it was the act of having to state their choice.


“Ghostchicago” also presents an interesting point that I made in my own response. Along with the notion that we have our own powers to decide, we are also influenced by culture or community, which is very diverse and specific to peoples. I also had found the topic discussion to be a fascinating one. When faced with outward forces relying on one to make a decision, subjects produced different responses. Asian Americans, in the experiment, had done better with the reinforcement that their mothers were compelling them to. With the exact opposite results, Americans did better knowing they could take the initiative not being imposed on. It correlates with the core values that certain cultures or religions may hold, which is remarkable and makes a lot of sense.

Avatar
ATH3NA
Posts: 7

The Game of Chess

This world has to judge on some level. It is not only necessary, it is a necessity. Be that judgement based on your socio-economic standing, the color of your skin, or the religion you subscribe to. It is for quality of life that we choose what we think is the best out of a group of things. Judgement has never been a social construct, it is an inherent and innate function for our survival. It helped us pick the blue fruit over the red berry because the red berry made us feel sick. No longer must we fight for our survival, but we do need to work endlessly at the mercy of society. The same society that tells mature older women that they have to look young and child-like forever or they will no longer have any worth. The one that forces us to believe that white is better than black and rich is better than poor. However if we choose to push the envelope and try to pass judgement without the corrupt thinking of our community swaying our decision, we are cast out. Judgement is vital in any society, and, seeing as humans are social creatures, disagreeing with the consensus of the collective is a death sentence, making the action a must. In both class and in the video I saw how everyone deliberated and discriminated upon the peppers. It was mind boggling how quick everyone was to judge peppers. Discrimination has its claws dug so deep into our very souls that we are able to categorize such simple things in an instant and then have long winded arguments on the topic of which is best. My point being that, if we are so quick to judge with something so insignificant as a pepper, what would we do or what have we done in more serious circumstances. This is what I fear. Judgement is based in survival, yes, but sometimes survival means pleasing the group, and that is where good discrimination shifts to corrupted discrimination. We can’t live with society, but we can’t live without it. The epitome of decision making is chess. Upon that chess board two players move their pieces around, with the goal of taking the other person’s king. With each move, judgement is passed on which piece will be moved and to where. These choices are not good nor bad, they just are, and they must be passed or you’ll lose. In this world you’ll lose everything if you don’t choose correctly.
Avatar
ATH3NA
Posts: 7

Right vs Wrong

Originally posted by silentnight on October 08, 2019 02:57

There are two vital, yet subtly difference definitions of discrimination as provided by the online Oxford Dictionary. One is the “recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another”, essentially a "discrimination between right and wrong”. I would say that people do need this in the world. We have developed our brains to include the idea of a moral compass that is entirely unique to everyone but can be shaped and evolve, which thereby governs our actions. The other being “the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex”, which would mean there are "victims of racial discrimination". I do believe there is a world out there in which we do not need this sort of bias. However, in this world, it begs the question not only to us Facing students but to everyone - what good does it do to have such bigotry?

Post your response here.

That is an excellent point you have made. I didn't really consider it when I wrote my own post. I just mainly focused on how discrimination and judgement are for survival. I was wondering if you think that maybe because society wants us to think a certain way about particular groups, it still constitutes survival, or should everyone just push past and fight the collective in this respect?

Avatar
ATH3NA
Posts: 7

Originally posted by ghostchicago on October 07, 2019 21:05

Originally posted by pannafugo on October 07, 2019 17:21

Judgement and discrimination are innate to being a human. Making choices, which is something everyone does every day, involves judgement and discrimination, even on the smallest scale. Should you take this staircase or that staircase to get to your next class? Well, that one is always crowded, so you take the other...that in itself is a judgement and discriminating the more crowded staircase in favor of one that may get you where you need to go more quickly. Extrapolate this out to every moment throughout the day. We cannot live without judgement and choice. Of course, technically, we could live without choice, as mentioned in the TED talk, where the citizens of previously communist occupied countries did not have choices, and once they did, they were reluctant to make them. In our society in the west, however, this is unfathomable. Overall, the point of judgement and decision making is to choose the best or better option in order to better one’s life or benefit them in some way.


Do we need to discriminate against people? Absolutely not, but again, I believe it is innate to all human beings to judge each other, and judging could lead to discrimination in this matter. Can we live in a world without discrimination? Again, no. We cannot prevent people from being prejudiced against others due to their ethnicity, race or religion. Using the example of the peppers in class, we cannot choose produce without discriminating against produce that is small, rotted, or discolored. On the most basic level, yes, we do need choice and judgement in order to function in a capitalist society. However, when this judgement is applied to humans in a negative manner, and people are discriminated against due to aspects of their appearance or identity that they cannot change, is not good (obviously) and should not be present in society, nor does it need to be in order for society to function.


In short, judging and discriminating can be good or bad, despite the immediate negative connotation of both words. We cannot live without either, no matter how hard we may try. In writing this post, I myself am judging the topic of discrimination and judging (pretty meta). It is unavoidable.


Guardianangel brings up an interesting point when they say that if one is judgemental or discriminatory towards something, they should keep it to themselves. That in itself is a choice that person should make. The world would be more peaceful if all negative thoughts were kept private, but people choose to make themselves be heard.

I think pannafugo makes a really interesting point about the role that judgement plays in our everyday lives. It is necessary, in every decision, to weigh your options by judging them both. We need judgement to exist in a capitalist society. Judgement and discrimination may be good and necessary when judging things like produce, but there must be a line. Once people start using this idea of discriminating in order to pick which is the best inanimate object, and apply it to discriminating against other humans due to their religion or skin color, this judgement no longer is necessary and becomes dangerous.

It seems that ghostchicago is saying that judgement only exists in a capitalist society. I may very well be wrong, but I would have to disagree. Judgement and discrimination can be seen stretching across all of history to even before we had a society, so how can it be limited to a capitalist one? The world hasn't had an economy for very long, much less a capitalist society. If anything, I believe that judgement is necessary to exist in society, period. What seems almost paradoxical about the act of discrimination/judgment is that while it helps us limit and narrow down our options, it is limitless with whom it affects.

If I am wrong about what ghostchicago said, either way it was such a stellar and well thought out reply and I made a lot of very similar points in my own post.

Avatar
DiamondBlue
Posts: 3

Judgement and Discrimination

Judgement/ discrimination is a natural human occurrence. We as humans, whether we know it or not, judge and discriminate every single day. Discrimination doesn’t have to be racial, it could even be as insignificant as choosing a pepper from a pile of peppers because of how it looks. I agree with guardian angel on the basis that discrimination and judgement isn’t always a bad thing, unless it violates another humans’ rights. I also agree with pannafuego on the fact that humans will never stop discriminating towards each other, and there will always be prejudices. As brought up in the TED Talk, once previously Communist countries had let people make their own decisions, the people didn’t want to. I feel like it is impossible to live in a society without discrimination because it is a natural human action, and it has been with human nature since the beginning.

Avatar
pannafugo
Posts: 5

Originally posted by dummkopf on October 07, 2019 21:17

One definition of discriminate is to recognize a distinction or differentiate. I do not think this is entirely necessary to our society, but that it has simply been ingrained into us. When Sheena Iyengar talks about her study of Eastern Europeans and what choices mean to them, she mentions their thoughts about different kinds of soda. As a people who had been oppressed by their government to only see a small range of things, being offered so many choices was ridiculous and unnecessary in their terms. On the other hand, an American, such as myself would have immediately asked for the soda of their liking or would have pondered about what to get, without even thinking about simply cutting down their options. We would think it outrageous to not be offered more than a few choices at least, even though most of us are perfectly fine with whatever we receive, or a smaller range of decisions.


We do not need to judge, but we feel the need to judge. If I were presented with an apple and not given any alternatives, I would simply take the apple. But if I was given the choice of picking one of three apples, I would take my time to ponder which one looked the juiciest or the largest, instead of just taking one. This is the same as the peppers. Even though we are presented with many perfectly fine choices, we need to judge which one looks the best to us. The point of judgment is to find a choice that is the most aesthetically pleasing or useful to the chooser. We humans do not care about the fact that all of this decision making is just wasting our time, we simply want to extract the object that will ‘elevate’ us the most. If that thing is a perfectly round pepper, then so be it.

Dummkopf makes a good point that judgement is ingrained in each human basically since birth. While it's not a necessity, we feel the need to do judge in certain situations. The apple metaphor is a great example of this-- when presented with one apple, you take it, but when given a choice, you carefully consider each one. We want what is best for us and what will benefit us the most. It would be extremely difficult to survive in life without this freedom to choose.

Avatar
secretname7
Posts: 11

The Beauty and Horror of Choices

Everyday, as humans we make choices. These choices can be what route to walk home, which tomato to grab for dinner, or who to call and catch up with that night. Regardless of the decision we make, there is a level of prejudice that goes into all of these choices. For example, we might be more inclined to take a shorter walk on a colder day or a longer walk on a day with nice weather.

As said in the TED talk, people who typically make decisions (particularly a western civilization) have no issue in doing so. In the past, in western civilizations, differences were greatly acknowledged, whereas in a communist state, everyone and everything was viewed as equal. This is how prejudices were born. Since people in these western civilizations have been making differences prominent for many years, it is second nature. On the contrary, someone living in a communist state would be reluctant to make a choice for themselves, as most decisions involve prejudice on some level.

In some respects, picking the freshest fruit or vegetable is a good decision to make, because your family would enjoy the food more. Other choices, such as who to or to not be friends with can be controversial. If you don't want to be friends with somebody is it because of their skin tone? because of their personality? because they're smart or stupid? All of these questions pose some level of prejudice, because you cannot fully judge a person by a few confrontations, which is something that humans typically do.

All in all, choices are a necessity, but I think there will always be judgement on some level, take apples for example. Nobody wants a moldy, smushy apple, so their would be judgments in that sense.

Avatar
secretname7
Posts: 11

Originally posted by guardianangel on October 06, 2019 14:08

. The authority figures we have in our lives can just as effectively influence our decisions as we do. In our Pepper experiment, it seemed as many votes were caught by a majority simply because they all had a certain version of what "beauty" is (for a pepper). Who determines our perspective on our appearance? It seems as though just as we determine what looks good, society can also tell us what looks good and thus sway our choices. But, we can live in a world where discrimination and choice can be present and not hurt others, but simply keeping our opinions to ourselves.

This is a great point! I agree to the fact that authority figures have a great say in our opinions. That being said who are the authority figures? Is it the president? Is it celebrities? Is it our parents? Is it a teacher? Whichever the answer may be, I truly believe they all have people who look up to them. At what point is something passed down? For example, racist ideology was passed down for many years, in the South, but nowadays many oppose President Trump's racist comments and refuse to associate with him.

Avatar
secretname7
Posts: 11

Originally posted by shorty123 on October 07, 2019 17:21

I feel like there are two categories of discrimination. I think that one is the way people subconsciously categorize and group people, and the other is negatively feeling a way about a certain group of people. Subconsciously grouping someone usually happens when you first meet them, and no it does not need to happen but it is someone's choice to decide if they are going to let what someone is change their view on them. I think a lot of people are unknown to to different cultures and backgrounds that are not their own, so when they see a difference from what they see as their “normal”, they retaliate to judging.

I agree with this point. We all subconsciously judge and categorize others. Any easy categorization is "like me" and "unlike me". Personally, I think it is human nature to notice differences, but the point to which we fully process and analyze them is something learned by a parent or society.

posts 31 - 40 of 40